Char Wipe DISCUSSION

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The Man In Black

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Hail, citizens of Daragoth. It has been mentioned many different times and in many different ways that the original poll for a character wipe was neither clear nor useful. Because of this, I have created this thread to discuss the idea of a character wipe. I will use this thread to give a more in-depth view of the systems we want to add. If you are for or against the idea of a char wipe based on what we are to add, make your views known. A simple 'yes' or 'no' will not be accepted.

That being said, let us take a look at the changes we have in mind for MS:C:


1 - The Magic System
-------The Opposition of Schools
-------Levelling Spells
-------Spell Cycles
-------A Look into a Few of the New Spells

2 - Weapons Rebalanced
-------Population
-------The New Weapon Class
-------Specialties
-------Less Grinding

3 - Titles
-------What Do They Mean for MS:C?

4 - Optimization
-------Eight Tome Limit
-------Changing the Way the Character Saves and Loads
-------A Stab at Edicts

5 - Conclusion
-------Conclusion.

The Magic System

The Opposition of Schools


The first thing we will do to set up the opposition of schools is remake them. Each different school has more than just different spells. They all have different fighting styles entirely. The schools we are looking at for the new magic system, and how they oppose eachother, are as follows:

Fire vs Ice
Lightning/Air vs Earth
Chaos vs Order

Because we are working towards specialization, even individual wizards will likely be different. Opposition means more than just Fire hurting Ice more, it also means that wizards proficient in Fire can't became as proficient in Ice. While this may seem limitting, it will actually expand the game. Assuming each wizard takes the maximum of three different schools of magic under their belt, there are seven different types of wizards possible. Again, this will increase playability and diversity in the game. Something that is necessary for teamwork and enjoyment.

Levelling Spells

Another change to the magic system will be the levelling of individual spells. No longer are we merely levelling a skill, but the actual magics themselves. To level a spell, you first have to reach certain level for the proper school. This level will probably be based on the base level of the spell in question. Once you have the proper level, you'll go to an NPC and request he train you more in the ways of that spell. Maybe he'll ask for money, maybe he'll ask for a quest, maybe he'll just give you the knowlege free of charge. What happens will change everytime to keep the game fresh.

You're probably wondering what happens when you level a spell. Well, there are a few things that happen. If you level Ice Shield, the protection and duration will go up. If you level Fire Dart, damage and DOT damage will increase. If you continue to level Fire Dart, you will learn Fire Ball. As will be discussed later, you just gained a new spell by an NPC quest. You did not grind a map 20 times to get it. Not all spells can be gained by this method, but even a few drastically change the game.

Spell Cycles

There are a few spells you'll see shared across all the spell categories. For instance, each school will have a shield of sorts. Each shield is unique, and most offer something more than protection! Currently, there are two other spell cycles in plan, and more may come.

A Look into a Few of the New Spells

To hype up a little desire, I'm going to discuss a few of the new spells we'll be seeing. I think it's appropriate to look at one of each school, so let's begin.

Aura of Fire - This is fire's "shield," though it does not offer any protection. The Aura of Fire spell works alongside the basis of Fire: Quick damage, but nothing to help you or your teammates. The way AoF works is by burning any and all enemies that attack you (that are within a certain range of you, of course). I'll note that this damage will train fire.

Ice Ring - A higher level version of Ice Wall. This spell pushes enemies back, then creates a circle of ice walls around you. The walls, pending adjustment to their health and exploits, will offer enough protection for you to heal yourself and teammates, or buy some time to prepare other spells.

Earthquake - This is a higher level spell that acts similarly to Volcano, in that it can be cast only once per preparation. It does high AOE damage and stuns everything around you that's on the ground. The earth will continue to quake, but for a shorter time than a volcano.

Speedy Escape - A spell version of the Crystal of Return. This works with the Lightning/Air's theme - Keep away from enemies. A wizard shouldn't have to actually FIGHT enemies ;-) (For the people screaming for my blood at the exploits of this, there are some slight drawbacks to make it less overpowered, but it will still act exactly as above)

Charm Skeleton - Much like the pet system, there will be a charm system for Order magics. The difference of course being that your creatures won't follow you from map to map. With this spell, you can bring a skeleton under your control to fight for you. As you level this spell, it's easier to charm skeletons and you can charm higher level ones. You will also be able to charm more skeletons, and skeletons charmed will be more powerful.

Bow of Calamity - This is the second of the spell cycles. Each school has a summon weapon that trains that school's magic. I felt that one of Chaos' best weapons was to work from the background to destroy enemies. What better way to represent that than a bow?

Weapons Rebalanced

Population


We. Have. Swords. I can say with all confidence that the majority of higher level players are fencers, and there's a reason for this. We have a lot of swords, and more specifically, we have a lot of GOOD swords. The first step to weapon rebalancing is to populate the world with the other weapon types.

The New Weapon Class

I'm sure a lot of you have been wondering what the new set of weapons will be. It should come as no suprise what it is, as everytime someone has suggested one of the weapons belonging here they get turned down due to lack of class to put them in. Our newest weapon class shall be Pole Arms. The pole arms class will be populated by halberds, spears, and their ilk. Pole arms have a long range. More about their specialties below.

Specialities

With the current state of weapons, there's very little that sets the weapon classes apart. We believe that each weapon class should have something more to offer than just +Damage, -Accuracy. Here are our ideas for making each school its on distinct type:

Axe Handling: Axe Handling will become what it was meant to be: the hit and run weapon. Doing hit and run attacks will cause more damage, and to encourage people to do such attacks, axes will also receive a higher chance of making monsters flinch.

Blunt Arms: Blunt Arms will focus on doing large amounts of damage against an incapacitated enemy. Blunt weapons will be higher damage than their counterparts.

Archery: Archery is the answer-all weapon. It will have slightly less power than the rest of the weapons, but, firing the correct arrow you can tackle almost, if not all enemies. This will come with a change to the arrow system explained later.

Martial Arts: Martial Arts has always been a rather pathetic skill. We are hoping to bring back a bit of the old Master Sword by having combos. This will bring a bit of realism to MA as well as spice it up a bit. If we are unable to add combos, MA will gain the ability to deflect blows, and, when your level increases, have a chance to counter an enemies swing.

Swordsmanship: Swordsmanship is the balance between defensive and offensive. They have a higher parry than the other weapons, but less power.

Pole Arms: Pole Arms focus on keeping distance between you and your enemies. The closer you are to the optimum distance of the Pole Arm, the better damage you will do. The closer you are to the enemy, the less damage you will do.

Small Arms: Small Arms lack the power of swinging a large axe, but they do have one advantage. They are able to find and accurately pierce weak spots in armor. It's because of this that SA's special ability will be to 'ignore' a certain percentage of armor. This percentage will increase as they level.

Less Grinding

One of the things that kills MS:C is that the way to get the best weapons and armor and the best ways to train are one in the same. The majority of time in MS:C is spent running the same few maps over and over again until you are fully equipped. We would like to see this changed.

It's been said many times that the best part of MS:C is the exploration. People love free-roam maps and finding new areas/quests. We will be attempting to move a lot of the better items to this system. The quests, however, will not be the same as they are now. Currently, the hardest part of quests like the Bloodstone ring quest are finding them. Once found, everyone and their mother knows about them and the rares start getting passed out like college party goers. We hope to make quests a challenging experience in and of themselves.

Titles

What They Mean For MS:C


The majority of us have already seen Thothie's Title Thread. There, he suggested a bunch of different titles that change stats/damage and offer certain bonuses for acquiring them. I, however, would like to suggest a slightly different change to the title system.

The method for acquiring titles will be generally the same. You'll still have to get to a required level, you'll possibly have to do a quest or give an item or donation. There are two differences in my system, however. First, titles would emphasize the weapon skills they represent (so an Archery title would allow for better movement and physical defense) as well as provide stat boosting and new weapons/items. The second difference is the one that will truly change MS:C.

When you first start as an Adventurer, you'll be able to train your skills as normal, but you'll soon reach a level cap. This level cap is lifted when you go to a title master and receive your first title. This means that almost from the get-go you're building a unique character. As you proceed through your journeys, you'll gain access to more titles, better weapons, and soon become a master of your craft. Along the way, you'll learn that certain situations call for weapon skills that you don't have. This means you will have to build a team of other players to help you through the game; not because they're other "high level players with hundreds of health and all the best items," but because they have the skills that a certain area needs.

So, in addition to offering many different ways to play the game (increasing re-playability), we're also coming closer to Thothie's goal of making this game a team game, not a lock-the-server-and-farm game.

Optimization

Eight Tome Limit


The first thing we'll be doing to optimize the code is remove the eight tome limit. This is an easy bug to fix, and will allow mages to have their spells closer at hand. This will also cut down on the total number of items a Wizard has. More explaination of why this must be done later.

Changing the Way the Character Saves and Loads

For a long time now, we've been held back from major changes to the game because any changes to the character involves changing the saving/loading, and thus a character wipe. If we do a character wipe now, I can add an integer to the character file that will tell us the Save-Version. With this Save-Version, we can know whether or not to try to pull certain information from the character. For instance, say we add a new weapon class. We simply change the current save-version, then, when an "old" character loads, the game knows not to try to read the weapon class and just use a default value. This means that we can update the character without need for another character wipe!

A Stab at Edicts

One of the biggest crashing bugs we have is the No Free Edicts error. We have a two ideas to help cut these down. The first is very helpful to archers. We intend to remove arrows from the game and move instead to a quiver system. Through quests, or large sums of money, you will be able to acquire magically filling quivers. For each type of arrow we have now, there will be a quiver, plus more. This will cut down on Archer item counts, as well as make the game more balanced for them because they don't have to constantly hunt for their weapons.

The second change we have in mind is the removal of scrolls. The main reason we do this is because the Spell Levelling system can only work with tomes. With the fixing of the Eight Tome Limit, there's no reason to keep scrolls, except peoples preference of their advantages. We intend to do a few balances to compensate for this. First, tomes will get their own GUI. This will make it so cycling through '2' isn't a problem. We will also be slackening the 'stop' times for spells, so mages can do what they're supposed to and keep moving. With those two changes, and with spells being completely quick-slottable, we believe this effectively balances the removal of scrolls for the player. This also cuts down significantly on edicts because of how the scroll system worked.

Conclusion

Conclusion


In conclusion, based on the MAJOR changes to MS:C listed above, I feel it is necessary and beneficial to impose a character wipe. The updates drastically change MS:C in many different ways, and will make the game much more exciting. I would also like to note that it's possible to download your character from FN and host a server of your own on the old version of MS:C.

tl;dr - You have given up your rights to discuss this matter if you are too lazy to read the changes.
 

Thothie

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*sigh*

While applaud you for having the guts to apply changes 70% of the forum community opposes under the recent poll, I’m still recommending you dump this idea. Not the character wipe so much, as the intended changes.

There’s nothing in these changes that really provides any prevention from being in the same boat you are in now, down the road, and then you’ll have to character wipe again. Plus I don’t think you realize how ambitious your plans really are, you are looking at a years worth of code and script debuggery, and serveral whole new cans of worms.

There’s also the fact that the changes are so extensive that I suspect you wont have anywhere near the same game play, and thus this sort of thing should really be reserved for a new game (such as MS:S).

In addition, 90% of these changes could be accomplished without a character wipe.

But I gave you the torch, do with it what you will. Meanwhile I’ll just stand over here warming myself with the fire of my burnt bridges… ;)
 

evilsquirrel

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@thothie: Not one person of the many I've asked ingame has said that these changes are a bad idea (see: against the changes), in fact...of all the people i've asked ingame, only corholio and one or two other Muchahadeen members (can't remember names) have been against the character wipe.

still@thothie: While many of these changes are "possible" without a wipe, from what I understand, you would need to use very hacky methods to get them to work properly (if working properly is possible at all, with current characters). In addition, either all new characters would be screwed for HP from the get-go (from the new specialization changes) or the old characters would have absurd hp - ranging into the 6000's.

MiB realizes that this is not a 1 month project, but what you call "years" of code work... likely will not be so. For one, there are multiple people working on the project now - and I will be making stabs at the code aswell.

@topic: I am wholeheartedly for this idea, it will be worth losing the character I've had (and used) since the first release of MS:C.
 

Sabre

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I agree wholeheartedly.

Moreover this is a much better way to discuss it; the problem with the poll was that not only was it kinda set up weird, it allowed for anyone to just say no...Not really an accurate representation of what the community really thinks, since you're forcing them to decide upon one thing, and not be given the chance to change their opinion, after speculation.
 

Thothie

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I think it's quite the opposite, and there are in fact a great deal many more against the idea than even the poll suggested, and ye folks are in denial of that fact in favor of a pipe dream. ;)

Your re-inventing the wheel will take a year, at least. Meanwhile game expansion and modification comes to a halt, and everyone spends time leveling up characters they know are going to vanish?
 

evilsquirrel

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@Thothie: We intend to make several smaller patches inbetween now and the large one, fixing several issues in the current build. Mapping progress will not stop, and that is one of the things people care about most - maps and items. Aside from this, if people want to keep playing the game as is after our releases, they are free to keep playing the old version with thier old characters.
 

Thothie

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Aside from this, if people want to keep playing the game as is after our releases, they are free to keep playing the old version with thier old characters.
How, exactaly, is that going to work? Part of my concern here is you're really making a new game. If you're going to make a new game, by all means, make a new game, but don't destroy this one to do it. ;)
 

evilsquirrel

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We will provide hosting for the final saves of FN on the old game, and make the link publicly avaliable. Anyone could then host it on thier own server, or central server - and run this version of master sword.

It's not that complicated...


As for the "you're making a new game" concerns - that depends on the definition of a "new game". Was MS:C a new game, or an evolution from MS 1.35? The same could be said for any major update - This one, just happens to address several glaring issues in some relatively new systems (magic), among some other changes that *gasp* make different weapons different.

If it is your fear that the current "JoAT" system will be entirely lost, and specialization forced upon everyone... I do not believe that is the case, JoAT is a popular playstyle and will likely be supported in some fasion.
 

Shadeska

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I'm not entirely sure where all the votes against the wipe came from. I saw 17 votes for #1, 2 for #2, and 4 for #3. I come to the forums the next day and it's changed dramatically :? I have to agree with evilsquirrel on this one. A character wipe is crucial in order to remove all the previous items, moneys, scrolls, and old files from FuzNet. I believe it to be of utmost importance for the advancement of this community and game, to be reborn, as a phoenix, from the ashes of the MS:C character files. Also, the sooner it's done, the sooner you kids can play again, right? You don't want to play now, do you? It'll all be gone if there is a wipey. That'd be bad.
I am not without my own qualms about this whole wipe-on, wipe-off business.

I will miss my Magical Firewood.

I am honest-to-god upset over the loss of my Magical Firewood.

I really, really, really wanna keep my Magical Firewood.

PLEASE MiB, DON'T TAKE MY FIREWOOD!!!! :oldcry:

There must be another way...
 

Slaytanic_pb

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Wow, those are a lot of changes that you are planning and it sounds exciting and also VERY scary at the same time. I can see and understand Thothie's concerns thou. These changes could take a year to work out completely so that the game plays / feels as good as it does now. So please, don't be in a huge hurry to go guns blazing and damn the torpedoes on this one. If you are really wanting to push forward with this, like right now, I suggest a fork in this project. Make another FN for the new game and keep the old FN. Meaning, make a new installer, make it a different mod to select and keeping it completely separate from FN that we have now. If you need hosts for the old FN, I'm sure there are plenty of players willing to help you in this matter. I would be willing to help in this matter, and I think that Picadilly would be too. If you have other people in mind that are better positioned globally for old FN, I hope they are able to give us as good up time as Blasto has been able to. You should be able to make very small changes to maps in order to adjust for what loot drops for either fork without too much hassle, or change the monsters as need be. Obviously at some point when you feel that this new fork is stable and has the right feel that you could drop a lot of support for the old one, till you decide that you won't support it anymore. As I can see there will be a point where it would be enough work to adjust new maps to work on the old fork not feel like it's worth the effort.

One change to add to this that I feel is a MUST, is that WE as players have more control and input as to what stats go up and that we fully understand how these stats affect gameplay. As it is now, the stats are vague as to what they do in game and I would LOVE to see this changed. If you are going to add classes, why not add the ability to tailor the class way you want? I don't think it should be too hard to implement and you'd make leveling more exciting. Just be sure that you don't have to choose what you want to change right away, and make it a button to click when you want to make you new level changes.

Actually, as I've been writing this, one thing that I remembered is there a certain someone who gave $100 to this project to have his character duped. What will he get out of this character wipe now? Somehow, just because of who gave the $100 dollars, he'll get jack-sh!t out of it. Real good deal for someone who HELPS out everyone here...

Hell, just give me the old FN so I can make his $100 worth what he thought it was...
 

Glorfindel

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The Man In Black said:
For a long time now, we've been held back from major changes to the game because any changes to the character involves changing the saving/loading, and thus a character wipe. If we do a character wipe now, I can add an integer to the character file that will tell us the Save-Version. With this Save-Version, we can know whether or not to try to pull certain information from the character. For instance, say we add a new weapon class. We simply change the current save-version, then, when an "old" character loads, the game knows not to try to read the weapon class and just use a default value. This means that we can update the character without need for another character wipe!

Thothie said:
In addition, 90% of these changes could be accomplished without a character wipe.

These two statements seem to contradict one another. :p

As far my opinion goes on the character wipe, I'm against it if it's going to leave us in a barren wasteland of nothing for half a year. I sort of like the fork idea that Slay put forward, but I am also sure that splitting the project would hinder development. I am not sure whether this would be a expedient course of action.

If the character wipe is a MUST, and you believe the development team can accomplish all of these wonders...by all means go ahead. I love exploration more than anyone. But no one likes their game being taken away for pipe dreams, as thothie said (although he is a damn pessimist!)
 

The Man In Black

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I suggest a fork in this project.

I have not intention of working on two games at once to appease a few people. We do one or we do the other.

Actually, as I've been writing this, one thing that I remembered is there a certain someone who gave $100 to this project to have his character duped. What will he get out of this character wipe now? Somehow, just because of who gave the $100 dollars, he'll get jack-sh!t out of it.

Never even heard of this, but as we've mentioned previously, the last saves of FN would be available for people to host as they wish.

Real good deal for someone who HELPS out everyone here...

No comment on that one, but I'm sure someone will CWATIDIDTHAR.

These two statements seem to contradict one another.

Not.. Really.. For one, Thothie is tossing out a random number that is incorrect. For another, there aren't that many character updating things in the change. I'm merely pointing out that, if we're doing a char wipe, I'll be able to set up measures to allow us to add character updates in the future.

As far my opinion goes on the character wipe, I'm against it if it's going to leave us in a barren wasteland of nothing for half a year.

I remember having a patch that took 3-4 months and all it did was build excitement. We don't intend to hide away in our little dev room while we're working. People will know of our progress.
 

Gurluas

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After reading the changes, i must agree maybe a wipe is good but for DOGCATS SAKE ADD A FEMALE MODEL(Or rather, enable since we have one)) o_O
 

The Man In Black

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We have no way of changing the player model at the moment =|
 

Thothie

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Well, you do, but it's hacky as hell.
 

evilsquirrel

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Thothie said:
Well, you do, but it's hacky as hell.


I'm going to assume we'll be trying to stay away from hacky methods to do things - in an attempt to make the game more stable.
 

Thothie

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evilsquirrel said:
I'm going to assume we'll be trying to stay away from hacky methods to do things - in an attempt to make the game more stable.

LOL, no, yer going to be adding a whole lotta new hacks to do what yer planning. ;) Trust me, tis how this mod works. (MiB knows that better than most.)

...and 90% was not an exaggeration, as I only see one thing, in everything that's been proposed that *might* require a character wipe, and even that's debatable. My one-year long prediction is based on rather hefty experience too, but then again, I'm not sure about how much detail you are going to go into (but to justify a wipe, you really need to go all the way.)

EVERYTHING BELOW THIS LINE IS DEV SPEAK ;)
(ignore if you value your sanity)
==============================

If you look at player/body.script - you can see the hacky as hell method. You would need to recompile the reference.mdl, and have it made up totally of "blank" entries (ie. animations only), and "beam" a copy of the current reference.mdl onto it at spawn (by createnpc player/body.script in player/player_main.script). You, sadly, cannot simply use the current reference.mdl with invisible via renderprops, because it makes the weapons invisible as well.

You could beam any other model onto it similarly, so long as the bones lined up (incidentally, they line up fine with Little-G's WOW elves). If they don't line up, you can add new animations to the invisible skeleton model in which they do, but you'll of course have to alter the player scripts and code to actually use the new anims, somehow (lotta work). I’ve tested this, so it works, but yer adding yet another permanent script, and I suspect the beam effect could get interfered with by our buggy clienteffect remove system. (Although that REALLY needs to be fixed anyways)

It would be better, of course, to work out a real internal method of doing this, but it maybe pushing the code skillz limits till ye find a more experience HL modder willing to deal with the nightmare that is MSC++. (I hear Netrog’s been holding out on an army of them!) ;)

MiB.is-dreaming.org said:
A Stab at Edicts
[by removing arrows and scrolls]

While I like the idea for practicality, I should warn ye that removing items does not remove edicts. Items in containers don’t take any edicts until they are pulled out and the script is initiated. Scrolls only eat edicts when used, and then mostly due to the FX, and arrow stacks almost never do. You WILL however, be cutting back on overflow by removing 20 some scrolls.

Scrolls were invented before game_master and the clientcmd ability – therefore, there is no longer any reason why Scrolls should eat more edicts than tomes (save for the pretty fx). If you switched up base_scroll2 to use the game_master.script as the spell giver npc, and used clientcmd to ensure the hands were clear, you’d be using the exact same number of edicts the tome does. (Although you could, technically, re-add the fx through the game_master.script, if you really wanted to keep them – you’d still save yourself the createnpc companion/spell_maker_xxx.script.) This was on my to-do list somewhere.


MiB.is-dreaming.org said:
Charm Skeleton
One issue you are going to run into with this, that I should warn ye about, is that you cannot change race on a monster after it has started attacking without crashing the server. Ye maybe able to find what causes that, but if not, you’ll have to do what I did with the pet wolf, and create another (probably very complicated) NPC.

In terms of expanding/evening the weapon repertoire, beware that you will have to adjust the XP, or people will level so quickly that most of the lower level maps will never be found, and be stuck at that point where they’ve only two or three maps worth training on very quickly. Ye could probably arrange this with an internal universal XP adjustment, but you’ll need a lot of hours play testing to balance it out. Unless you fix the remaining XP issues, there’s no way to run numbers on it, so you’ll probably have to adjust in live beta-tests, and just have the mass rebellion every time you reduce universal XP. (Mass rebellion doesn't seem to be an issue for the new team though, so yer golden there.)

I won’t even go into the hell the new spell system will be, maybe in the other thread. Everyone drools over new spells, so it's your biggest seller, but you could just even up the spell line and add unlimited new spells as I suggested.

[/DEVELOPER]

I’d be more on board with the idea if you were keeping an FN server open for the old game, making a real effort not to hit the same dead end, and releasing this under a new name. (MS:Reset… Or MS:Remake – since it’d actually fit the URL.) ;) It’d keep the h8r’s happy (again, think you are in total denial of how badly they outnumber ye, just noting from my recent chat-log rants), and allow them to migrate over, which they probably would. Yer right to be worried of developing for two different games – however, if you concentrated on bug-fixes/optimizations for MS:C, most all of that could migrate over to MS:R, and you could even beta-test some of your ideas in MS:C, so you wouldn’t have all your untested sh*t hitting the fan at once.

Also, again, be much more inclined to be on board if there was anything here to prevent you reaching the same situation, but I don’t see any of that, and rather, I see this leading to an even more complex clusterf*ck. :(
 

Gurluas

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A female option exists, cant you somehow ask Doug if he has the 1.0 edition of the code, it had a working female...
Or maybe something like

[[If Female]] = Set model: Models/Bitch.mdl
(Im not a coder so of course it aint correct but something like that)
 

brian4

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Thothie is right about most of people are against this wipe. Unfortunately, most are probably afraid to post because whatever they say will be instantly countered by the aggressive community "elite." The character wipe is a bad idea... (My reasons are on mscont.mine.nu, and I'm too lazy to copy and paste, so I'll just sum it up).

Character files can be salvaged and still add new content, so I don't see the need to do a character wipe.
 

Dragon

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i think u should not wipe every 1s char because evey one with very high char lvls is going to loss them and start all over
agin and its taken me ages just to get to lvl 20 fencer and i dont whant to lose all my stuf so if u dont whant every 1 hating u dont wipe evey 1s char :evil: :evil: :twisted:
 

Cephear

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I think a Wipe would make some people hate MS:C because the poor guy just came lvl 50 and then he goes and come back to see what ? Nothing...

I actually think a new system would be great but...they must be another way...

We are doewmed
 

Gurluas

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1.2 got a wipe, 1.3 got a wipe, msc 1.0 got a wipe.

The economic is completely unstable because people exploited to get alot of gold...
I am not even close to 100k gold for the golden axe.

I say a wipe, lets begin anew.
 

Mikkel

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Well I'd love a wipe, if there is a good reason, and new things to explore. Untill that is I wouldn't like a wipe.
 

J-M v2.5.5

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I will vote for a wipe if, and only if all of the changes you people are promising will be implemented and playable as soon as the characters are wiped. I don't want to see all the characters get wiped in favor of a half-assed patch that only has half of the features implemented. I'd rather keep my skills and five Fe... items.

But the best option of all would be: continue this game under a different name, as suggested, if you want to implement changes that alter the gameplay in such radical ways.
In this scenario, just leave MS: C for what it is, and continue MS: [name], so that you don't force everybody to start a new char, but let people choose when they want to 'migrate' instead.
 

Rickler

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There is really no reason to char wip unless MSC gets an end game eg malgoriand. If you char wipe people will just level back up to the same spot and say "now what?" They''ll be right back where they were.
 
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