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Hail, citizens of Daragoth. It has been mentioned many different times and in many different ways that the original poll for a character wipe was neither clear nor useful. Because of this, I have created this thread to discuss the idea of a character wipe. I will use this thread to give a more in-depth view of the systems we want to add. If you are for or against the idea of a char wipe based on what we are to add, make your views known. A simple 'yes' or 'no' will not be accepted.
That being said, let us take a look at the changes we have in mind for MS:C:
1 - The Magic System
-------The Opposition of Schools
-------Levelling Spells
-------Spell Cycles
-------A Look into a Few of the New Spells
2 - Weapons Rebalanced
-------Population
-------The New Weapon Class
-------Specialties
-------Less Grinding
3 - Titles
-------What Do They Mean for MS:C?
4 - Optimization
-------Eight Tome Limit
-------Changing the Way the Character Saves and Loads
-------A Stab at Edicts
5 - Conclusion
-------Conclusion.
The Magic System
The Opposition of Schools
The first thing we will do to set up the opposition of schools is remake them. Each different school has more than just different spells. They all have different fighting styles entirely. The schools we are looking at for the new magic system, and how they oppose eachother, are as follows:
Fire vs Ice
Lightning/Air vs Earth
Chaos vs Order
Because we are working towards specialization, even individual wizards will likely be different. Opposition means more than just Fire hurting Ice more, it also means that wizards proficient in Fire can't became as proficient in Ice. While this may seem limitting, it will actually expand the game. Assuming each wizard takes the maximum of three different schools of magic under their belt, there are seven different types of wizards possible. Again, this will increase playability and diversity in the game. Something that is necessary for teamwork and enjoyment.
Levelling Spells
Another change to the magic system will be the levelling of individual spells. No longer are we merely levelling a skill, but the actual magics themselves. To level a spell, you first have to reach certain level for the proper school. This level will probably be based on the base level of the spell in question. Once you have the proper level, you'll go to an NPC and request he train you more in the ways of that spell. Maybe he'll ask for money, maybe he'll ask for a quest, maybe he'll just give you the knowlege free of charge. What happens will change everytime to keep the game fresh.
You're probably wondering what happens when you level a spell. Well, there are a few things that happen. If you level Ice Shield, the protection and duration will go up. If you level Fire Dart, damage and DOT damage will increase. If you continue to level Fire Dart, you will learn Fire Ball. As will be discussed later, you just gained a new spell by an NPC quest. You did not grind a map 20 times to get it. Not all spells can be gained by this method, but even a few drastically change the game.
Spell Cycles
There are a few spells you'll see shared across all the spell categories. For instance, each school will have a shield of sorts. Each shield is unique, and most offer something more than protection! Currently, there are two other spell cycles in plan, and more may come.
A Look into a Few of the New Spells
To hype up a little desire, I'm going to discuss a few of the new spells we'll be seeing. I think it's appropriate to look at one of each school, so let's begin.
Aura of Fire - This is fire's "shield," though it does not offer any protection. The Aura of Fire spell works alongside the basis of Fire: Quick damage, but nothing to help you or your teammates. The way AoF works is by burning any and all enemies that attack you (that are within a certain range of you, of course). I'll note that this damage will train fire.
Ice Ring - A higher level version of Ice Wall. This spell pushes enemies back, then creates a circle of ice walls around you. The walls, pending adjustment to their health and exploits, will offer enough protection for you to heal yourself and teammates, or buy some time to prepare other spells.
Earthquake - This is a higher level spell that acts similarly to Volcano, in that it can be cast only once per preparation. It does high AOE damage and stuns everything around you that's on the ground. The earth will continue to quake, but for a shorter time than a volcano.
Speedy Escape - A spell version of the Crystal of Return. This works with the Lightning/Air's theme - Keep away from enemies. A wizard shouldn't have to actually FIGHT enemies ;-) (For the people screaming for my blood at the exploits of this, there are some slight drawbacks to make it less overpowered, but it will still act exactly as above)
Charm Skeleton - Much like the pet system, there will be a charm system for Order magics. The difference of course being that your creatures won't follow you from map to map. With this spell, you can bring a skeleton under your control to fight for you. As you level this spell, it's easier to charm skeletons and you can charm higher level ones. You will also be able to charm more skeletons, and skeletons charmed will be more powerful.
Bow of Calamity - This is the second of the spell cycles. Each school has a summon weapon that trains that school's magic. I felt that one of Chaos' best weapons was to work from the background to destroy enemies. What better way to represent that than a bow?
Weapons Rebalanced
Population
We. Have. Swords. I can say with all confidence that the majority of higher level players are fencers, and there's a reason for this. We have a lot of swords, and more specifically, we have a lot of GOOD swords. The first step to weapon rebalancing is to populate the world with the other weapon types.
The New Weapon Class
I'm sure a lot of you have been wondering what the new set of weapons will be. It should come as no suprise what it is, as everytime someone has suggested one of the weapons belonging here they get turned down due to lack of class to put them in. Our newest weapon class shall be Pole Arms. The pole arms class will be populated by halberds, spears, and their ilk. Pole arms have a long range. More about their specialties below.
Specialities
With the current state of weapons, there's very little that sets the weapon classes apart. We believe that each weapon class should have something more to offer than just +Damage, -Accuracy. Here are our ideas for making each school its on distinct type:
Axe Handling: Axe Handling will become what it was meant to be: the hit and run weapon. Doing hit and run attacks will cause more damage, and to encourage people to do such attacks, axes will also receive a higher chance of making monsters flinch.
Blunt Arms: Blunt Arms will focus on doing large amounts of damage against an incapacitated enemy. Blunt weapons will be higher damage than their counterparts.
Archery: Archery is the answer-all weapon. It will have slightly less power than the rest of the weapons, but, firing the correct arrow you can tackle almost, if not all enemies. This will come with a change to the arrow system explained later.
Martial Arts: Martial Arts has always been a rather pathetic skill. We are hoping to bring back a bit of the old Master Sword by having combos. This will bring a bit of realism to MA as well as spice it up a bit. If we are unable to add combos, MA will gain the ability to deflect blows, and, when your level increases, have a chance to counter an enemies swing.
Swordsmanship: Swordsmanship is the balance between defensive and offensive. They have a higher parry than the other weapons, but less power.
Pole Arms: Pole Arms focus on keeping distance between you and your enemies. The closer you are to the optimum distance of the Pole Arm, the better damage you will do. The closer you are to the enemy, the less damage you will do.
Small Arms: Small Arms lack the power of swinging a large axe, but they do have one advantage. They are able to find and accurately pierce weak spots in armor. It's because of this that SA's special ability will be to 'ignore' a certain percentage of armor. This percentage will increase as they level.
Less Grinding
One of the things that kills MS:C is that the way to get the best weapons and armor and the best ways to train are one in the same. The majority of time in MS:C is spent running the same few maps over and over again until you are fully equipped. We would like to see this changed.
It's been said many times that the best part of MS:C is the exploration. People love free-roam maps and finding new areas/quests. We will be attempting to move a lot of the better items to this system. The quests, however, will not be the same as they are now. Currently, the hardest part of quests like the Bloodstone ring quest are finding them. Once found, everyone and their mother knows about them and the rares start getting passed out like college party goers. We hope to make quests a challenging experience in and of themselves.
Titles
What They Mean For MS:C
The majority of us have already seen Thothie's Title Thread. There, he suggested a bunch of different titles that change stats/damage and offer certain bonuses for acquiring them. I, however, would like to suggest a slightly different change to the title system.
The method for acquiring titles will be generally the same. You'll still have to get to a required level, you'll possibly have to do a quest or give an item or donation. There are two differences in my system, however. First, titles would emphasize the weapon skills they represent (so an Archery title would allow for better movement and physical defense) as well as provide stat boosting and new weapons/items. The second difference is the one that will truly change MS:C.
When you first start as an Adventurer, you'll be able to train your skills as normal, but you'll soon reach a level cap. This level cap is lifted when you go to a title master and receive your first title. This means that almost from the get-go you're building a unique character. As you proceed through your journeys, you'll gain access to more titles, better weapons, and soon become a master of your craft. Along the way, you'll learn that certain situations call for weapon skills that you don't have. This means you will have to build a team of other players to help you through the game; not because they're other "high level players with hundreds of health and all the best items," but because they have the skills that a certain area needs.
So, in addition to offering many different ways to play the game (increasing re-playability), we're also coming closer to Thothie's goal of making this game a team game, not a lock-the-server-and-farm game.
Optimization
Eight Tome Limit
The first thing we'll be doing to optimize the code is remove the eight tome limit. This is an easy bug to fix, and will allow mages to have their spells closer at hand. This will also cut down on the total number of items a Wizard has. More explaination of why this must be done later.
Changing the Way the Character Saves and Loads
For a long time now, we've been held back from major changes to the game because any changes to the character involves changing the saving/loading, and thus a character wipe. If we do a character wipe now, I can add an integer to the character file that will tell us the Save-Version. With this Save-Version, we can know whether or not to try to pull certain information from the character. For instance, say we add a new weapon class. We simply change the current save-version, then, when an "old" character loads, the game knows not to try to read the weapon class and just use a default value. This means that we can update the character without need for another character wipe!
A Stab at Edicts
One of the biggest crashing bugs we have is the No Free Edicts error. We have a two ideas to help cut these down. The first is very helpful to archers. We intend to remove arrows from the game and move instead to a quiver system. Through quests, or large sums of money, you will be able to acquire magically filling quivers. For each type of arrow we have now, there will be a quiver, plus more. This will cut down on Archer item counts, as well as make the game more balanced for them because they don't have to constantly hunt for their weapons.
The second change we have in mind is the removal of scrolls. The main reason we do this is because the Spell Levelling system can only work with tomes. With the fixing of the Eight Tome Limit, there's no reason to keep scrolls, except peoples preference of their advantages. We intend to do a few balances to compensate for this. First, tomes will get their own GUI. This will make it so cycling through '2' isn't a problem. We will also be slackening the 'stop' times for spells, so mages can do what they're supposed to and keep moving. With those two changes, and with spells being completely quick-slottable, we believe this effectively balances the removal of scrolls for the player. This also cuts down significantly on edicts because of how the scroll system worked.
Conclusion
Conclusion
In conclusion, based on the MAJOR changes to MS:C listed above, I feel it is necessary and beneficial to impose a character wipe. The updates drastically change MS:C in many different ways, and will make the game much more exciting. I would also like to note that it's possible to download your character from FN and host a server of your own on the old version of MS:C.
tl;dr - You have given up your rights to discuss this matter if you are too lazy to read the changes.
That being said, let us take a look at the changes we have in mind for MS:C:
1 - The Magic System
-------The Opposition of Schools
-------Levelling Spells
-------Spell Cycles
-------A Look into a Few of the New Spells
2 - Weapons Rebalanced
-------Population
-------The New Weapon Class
-------Specialties
-------Less Grinding
3 - Titles
-------What Do They Mean for MS:C?
4 - Optimization
-------Eight Tome Limit
-------Changing the Way the Character Saves and Loads
-------A Stab at Edicts
5 - Conclusion
-------Conclusion.
The Magic System
The Opposition of Schools
The first thing we will do to set up the opposition of schools is remake them. Each different school has more than just different spells. They all have different fighting styles entirely. The schools we are looking at for the new magic system, and how they oppose eachother, are as follows:
Fire vs Ice
Lightning/Air vs Earth
Chaos vs Order
Because we are working towards specialization, even individual wizards will likely be different. Opposition means more than just Fire hurting Ice more, it also means that wizards proficient in Fire can't became as proficient in Ice. While this may seem limitting, it will actually expand the game. Assuming each wizard takes the maximum of three different schools of magic under their belt, there are seven different types of wizards possible. Again, this will increase playability and diversity in the game. Something that is necessary for teamwork and enjoyment.
Levelling Spells
Another change to the magic system will be the levelling of individual spells. No longer are we merely levelling a skill, but the actual magics themselves. To level a spell, you first have to reach certain level for the proper school. This level will probably be based on the base level of the spell in question. Once you have the proper level, you'll go to an NPC and request he train you more in the ways of that spell. Maybe he'll ask for money, maybe he'll ask for a quest, maybe he'll just give you the knowlege free of charge. What happens will change everytime to keep the game fresh.
You're probably wondering what happens when you level a spell. Well, there are a few things that happen. If you level Ice Shield, the protection and duration will go up. If you level Fire Dart, damage and DOT damage will increase. If you continue to level Fire Dart, you will learn Fire Ball. As will be discussed later, you just gained a new spell by an NPC quest. You did not grind a map 20 times to get it. Not all spells can be gained by this method, but even a few drastically change the game.
Spell Cycles
There are a few spells you'll see shared across all the spell categories. For instance, each school will have a shield of sorts. Each shield is unique, and most offer something more than protection! Currently, there are two other spell cycles in plan, and more may come.
A Look into a Few of the New Spells
To hype up a little desire, I'm going to discuss a few of the new spells we'll be seeing. I think it's appropriate to look at one of each school, so let's begin.
Aura of Fire - This is fire's "shield," though it does not offer any protection. The Aura of Fire spell works alongside the basis of Fire: Quick damage, but nothing to help you or your teammates. The way AoF works is by burning any and all enemies that attack you (that are within a certain range of you, of course). I'll note that this damage will train fire.
Ice Ring - A higher level version of Ice Wall. This spell pushes enemies back, then creates a circle of ice walls around you. The walls, pending adjustment to their health and exploits, will offer enough protection for you to heal yourself and teammates, or buy some time to prepare other spells.
Earthquake - This is a higher level spell that acts similarly to Volcano, in that it can be cast only once per preparation. It does high AOE damage and stuns everything around you that's on the ground. The earth will continue to quake, but for a shorter time than a volcano.
Speedy Escape - A spell version of the Crystal of Return. This works with the Lightning/Air's theme - Keep away from enemies. A wizard shouldn't have to actually FIGHT enemies ;-) (For the people screaming for my blood at the exploits of this, there are some slight drawbacks to make it less overpowered, but it will still act exactly as above)
Charm Skeleton - Much like the pet system, there will be a charm system for Order magics. The difference of course being that your creatures won't follow you from map to map. With this spell, you can bring a skeleton under your control to fight for you. As you level this spell, it's easier to charm skeletons and you can charm higher level ones. You will also be able to charm more skeletons, and skeletons charmed will be more powerful.
Bow of Calamity - This is the second of the spell cycles. Each school has a summon weapon that trains that school's magic. I felt that one of Chaos' best weapons was to work from the background to destroy enemies. What better way to represent that than a bow?
Weapons Rebalanced
Population
We. Have. Swords. I can say with all confidence that the majority of higher level players are fencers, and there's a reason for this. We have a lot of swords, and more specifically, we have a lot of GOOD swords. The first step to weapon rebalancing is to populate the world with the other weapon types.
The New Weapon Class
I'm sure a lot of you have been wondering what the new set of weapons will be. It should come as no suprise what it is, as everytime someone has suggested one of the weapons belonging here they get turned down due to lack of class to put them in. Our newest weapon class shall be Pole Arms. The pole arms class will be populated by halberds, spears, and their ilk. Pole arms have a long range. More about their specialties below.
Specialities
With the current state of weapons, there's very little that sets the weapon classes apart. We believe that each weapon class should have something more to offer than just +Damage, -Accuracy. Here are our ideas for making each school its on distinct type:
Axe Handling: Axe Handling will become what it was meant to be: the hit and run weapon. Doing hit and run attacks will cause more damage, and to encourage people to do such attacks, axes will also receive a higher chance of making monsters flinch.
Blunt Arms: Blunt Arms will focus on doing large amounts of damage against an incapacitated enemy. Blunt weapons will be higher damage than their counterparts.
Archery: Archery is the answer-all weapon. It will have slightly less power than the rest of the weapons, but, firing the correct arrow you can tackle almost, if not all enemies. This will come with a change to the arrow system explained later.
Martial Arts: Martial Arts has always been a rather pathetic skill. We are hoping to bring back a bit of the old Master Sword by having combos. This will bring a bit of realism to MA as well as spice it up a bit. If we are unable to add combos, MA will gain the ability to deflect blows, and, when your level increases, have a chance to counter an enemies swing.
Swordsmanship: Swordsmanship is the balance between defensive and offensive. They have a higher parry than the other weapons, but less power.
Pole Arms: Pole Arms focus on keeping distance between you and your enemies. The closer you are to the optimum distance of the Pole Arm, the better damage you will do. The closer you are to the enemy, the less damage you will do.
Small Arms: Small Arms lack the power of swinging a large axe, but they do have one advantage. They are able to find and accurately pierce weak spots in armor. It's because of this that SA's special ability will be to 'ignore' a certain percentage of armor. This percentage will increase as they level.
Less Grinding
One of the things that kills MS:C is that the way to get the best weapons and armor and the best ways to train are one in the same. The majority of time in MS:C is spent running the same few maps over and over again until you are fully equipped. We would like to see this changed.
It's been said many times that the best part of MS:C is the exploration. People love free-roam maps and finding new areas/quests. We will be attempting to move a lot of the better items to this system. The quests, however, will not be the same as they are now. Currently, the hardest part of quests like the Bloodstone ring quest are finding them. Once found, everyone and their mother knows about them and the rares start getting passed out like college party goers. We hope to make quests a challenging experience in and of themselves.
Titles
What They Mean For MS:C
The majority of us have already seen Thothie's Title Thread. There, he suggested a bunch of different titles that change stats/damage and offer certain bonuses for acquiring them. I, however, would like to suggest a slightly different change to the title system.
The method for acquiring titles will be generally the same. You'll still have to get to a required level, you'll possibly have to do a quest or give an item or donation. There are two differences in my system, however. First, titles would emphasize the weapon skills they represent (so an Archery title would allow for better movement and physical defense) as well as provide stat boosting and new weapons/items. The second difference is the one that will truly change MS:C.
When you first start as an Adventurer, you'll be able to train your skills as normal, but you'll soon reach a level cap. This level cap is lifted when you go to a title master and receive your first title. This means that almost from the get-go you're building a unique character. As you proceed through your journeys, you'll gain access to more titles, better weapons, and soon become a master of your craft. Along the way, you'll learn that certain situations call for weapon skills that you don't have. This means you will have to build a team of other players to help you through the game; not because they're other "high level players with hundreds of health and all the best items," but because they have the skills that a certain area needs.
So, in addition to offering many different ways to play the game (increasing re-playability), we're also coming closer to Thothie's goal of making this game a team game, not a lock-the-server-and-farm game.
Optimization
Eight Tome Limit
The first thing we'll be doing to optimize the code is remove the eight tome limit. This is an easy bug to fix, and will allow mages to have their spells closer at hand. This will also cut down on the total number of items a Wizard has. More explaination of why this must be done later.
Changing the Way the Character Saves and Loads
For a long time now, we've been held back from major changes to the game because any changes to the character involves changing the saving/loading, and thus a character wipe. If we do a character wipe now, I can add an integer to the character file that will tell us the Save-Version. With this Save-Version, we can know whether or not to try to pull certain information from the character. For instance, say we add a new weapon class. We simply change the current save-version, then, when an "old" character loads, the game knows not to try to read the weapon class and just use a default value. This means that we can update the character without need for another character wipe!
A Stab at Edicts
One of the biggest crashing bugs we have is the No Free Edicts error. We have a two ideas to help cut these down. The first is very helpful to archers. We intend to remove arrows from the game and move instead to a quiver system. Through quests, or large sums of money, you will be able to acquire magically filling quivers. For each type of arrow we have now, there will be a quiver, plus more. This will cut down on Archer item counts, as well as make the game more balanced for them because they don't have to constantly hunt for their weapons.
The second change we have in mind is the removal of scrolls. The main reason we do this is because the Spell Levelling system can only work with tomes. With the fixing of the Eight Tome Limit, there's no reason to keep scrolls, except peoples preference of their advantages. We intend to do a few balances to compensate for this. First, tomes will get their own GUI. This will make it so cycling through '2' isn't a problem. We will also be slackening the 'stop' times for spells, so mages can do what they're supposed to and keep moving. With those two changes, and with spells being completely quick-slottable, we believe this effectively balances the removal of scrolls for the player. This also cuts down significantly on edicts because of how the scroll system worked.
Conclusion
Conclusion
In conclusion, based on the MAJOR changes to MS:C listed above, I feel it is necessary and beneficial to impose a character wipe. The updates drastically change MS:C in many different ways, and will make the game much more exciting. I would also like to note that it's possible to download your character from FN and host a server of your own on the old version of MS:C.
tl;dr - You have given up your rights to discuss this matter if you are too lazy to read the changes.