Symbols

[zeus9860]

Pfft, like if ms:c was one of my concerns anyways, right now i could grind to da max like old days but i'm not doing it, 'cause ms:c lost it's charm long ago and it's getting boring, so it's time to move on into other things and hope that something gets added, that will attract me back into it.

Also i'm not concerned about getting apostle items, i mean, seriously. If i want to get one, i'll find a way to get one, obvious.
But i am concerned about that shard removal thingie, that's going to be a bad move on its own. It's like nerfing potions just because 2 noobs come to the forums and decided to post stuff that dates since like 2007/2008, pretty sweet uh?

All in all, i think they are bad moves in the long run, everyone should have an equal chance to getting these items, and that one suggestion i gave, about players having to re-grind all the way back to top in order to use the full potency of the apostle items, is a good way to do so. Because there is no way in hell everyone will want to grind twice to level 60, even i have my own doubts if i would ever do such a thing to myself just to use godlike weaponry... This idea would be rather nice, as mappers could think of possible future quests to some of the existing maps, creating additional locked areas that are only accessible by those who carry the power of an apostle, leading to many secrets throughout the woldmap and reveal additional lore, we could even get "flashbacks" from old events when we replay with the new powered-up character.

There's another way to settle this, the 5 shards used by players to forge the felewyn blade, perhaps you could set a time limiter on the item and it transfers from 1 player to another every X days... just between the 5 players that sacrificed their shards, the ones sacrificing their symbols are discarded completly i guess, unless felewyn shard could end up like that. >_>

PS: I only replied because you did refer me in your post, so you were asking for it. Otherwise this thread would have been RIP.

 

[DarkSnack]

Everyone is going to suffer from this decision, not just you, and yet I only see you (and possibly Zeus) raising a stink about it; I think you're just mad that you won't have a chance to own one and are using the cause of "Everyone should have a chance to get it!" as an excuse.

This, let me redirect you to an even OLDER post, also I see you fail to see the pool 11.

http://msremake.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8922#p138039

That being said, I don't even want a Felewyn shard not even a Felewyn Blade, I want people to be able to get it,
the measure that is implemented (and Sybil knows what other crap is going to be thrown) strips everyone who wants it even with SOCIAL skills.

MS:C will never have enough population to be like other RPG's like you guys want it, all I see when I play is a few new players that quickly quit the game sometime after, and a few old players that still play so they don't see the mod die.
I honestly came back because I thought things were better but seeing how the wheel turned, I'm guessing it was not worth it AT ALL.

And it's not even an excuse I'm guessing too that the Blade will be like the Unholy blade (2 bd,5 felewyn shards) and it's not worth one bit it's like Blood drinker but somewhat better.

Let's not send the game down the flush.

And about posts yeah English is not my mother-language but still I'm sure you had no problem reading seeing how you made such a contructive answer.

 

[Thothie]

A few items being difficult to get, let alone one, is not going to "send the game down the flush."

If there gets to be too few, we can always adjust the system to make it easier, but at the moment, thanks in part to the activities of those in the linked thread, there are far too many.

You've no new arguments, just going round and round, so just deal with it, and STFU.

 

[Stormshift]

Personally, I think it would kinda suck to finally cap out and then find out I am unable to obtain the "end game" weapons.
Or that I might be able to obtain it, if I get 4 other people to sacrifice their chances to do so. Really, who is going to do that after they invested just as much time in their character as I?

If that's the method we're going with, then I'll go ahead and make the prediction that the first to obtain it will be a respected member of BoU, since they are the only guild with enough active people to even pull it off. And that's only if people aren't going to be salty about giving up their right to ever get the item on their character.

I get the lore and reasoning behind wanting it like that, but if we had an active playerbase of 1k+, I'd have no problem with it. Not everyone was running around with Hand of Rag on Vanilla WoW, It was normally an officer of one of the top guilds to get it. But if there really is going to be a dozen items like this, you're going to have more legendary weapons then active players. Might as well toss the active players in a hat and start pullin' names.


I've been checking MS:C at least 3x daily for the past week, and there has yet to be enough people on for me to even get a Nash run in. That last blood blade is starting to look like an effin legendary weapon. (I'm sure the recent Half-Life(get it? lol) update is the reason for a decrease in population.)

Keep in mind, this is only my opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree with my viewpoint, nor do I expect my opinion to determine the future of this game. (ie. No need to flame me :| )

 

[DarkSnack]

A few items being difficult to get, let alone one, is not going to "send the game down the flush."

If there gets to be too few, we can always adjust the system to make it easier, but at the moment, thanks in part to the activities of those in the linked thread, there are far too many.

You've no new arguments, just going round and round, so just deal with it, and STFU.

Woah why the hostility, I do have an argument, since the start of this topic, and I do agree with stormshift too in alot of ways.

MS:C doesn't have enough population for this kind of things, plus you were the one also saying, qouting you here

I've no idea how you're going to flip out when there's eventually twelve

So I don't think a few is the correct word for this game(Yes because this game is somewhat small compared to other to other games so 12 is already a sum), if there isn't enough population people won't get apostle items, getting tired of grinding the same maps over again to make other players their level also gets tiring when they leave, and there goes another chance for them to get the blade.

 

[Thothie]

As long as there's two people, there's enough population for these sort of things. It's just a matter of adjusting accordingly.

Right now there's vastly more people than there needs to be for the current system. Could require 10 or 20 or even 30 people for a shard, and still easily be viable. Nevermind the fact that there's well over 200 shards out there at the moment. Don't tempt me.

I know your English is bad, but I'm not sure which part of "deal with it" you are failing to understand.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

So long as there are plenty of high level weapons that can carry us through to the final bosses, it shouldn't matter how many people can get the actual apostle weapons.


...unless of course the items are released early, in which case the game will wind up being balanced around them. Which is why I don't think this should even be something worth discussing until after the final battle with maldora (or whoever the main villain is) has been scripted, and the world map has been all but completed.

 

[FreshMeat]

Storm, we can nash it up whenever you want buddy. Unless there has to be a lot of people for the blood blade to drop, I dunno. But if we start a map with us 2 on nash, I think we can both agree than people will hop on and join us.

P.s, the doombringer is dead dude, and he ain't EVER coming back. dun dun dun?

 

[Red Cell]

A few items being difficult to get, let alone one, is not going to "send the game down the flush."

If there gets to be too few, we can always adjust the system to make it easier, but at the moment, thanks in part to the activities of those in the linked thread, there are far too many.

You've no new arguments, just going round and round, so just deal with it, and STFU.

Woah why the hostility, I do have an argument, since the start of this topic, and I do agree with stormshift too in alot of ways.

MS:C doesn't have enough population for this kind of things, plus you were the one also saying, qouting you here

I've no idea how you're going to flip out when there's eventually twelve

So I don't think a few is the correct word for this game(Yes because this game is somewhat small compared to other to other games so 12 is already a sum), if there isn't enough population people won't get apostle items, getting tired of grinding the same maps over again to make other players their level also gets tiring when they leave, and there goes another chance for them to get the blade.

I think he's being "hostile" because you keep repeating your argument and it's falling on deaf ears. This guy has invested more time into making this game than you have in playing it. He gets your argument, but if you're not going to present something new/helpful/different then just stop, please.

And like Thothie said several times, he will adjust and tweak this element of the game to adjust toward the player base size. He gets it.

I very much appreciate your determination in how you want the game to be designed. But as stated in the Intent section of this thread, you get more bees with honey than vinegar, meaning you will be likely more successful in achieving your goal when you work WITH others rather than AGAINST them. Sometimes that means you don't exactly get your way and you may have to make sacrifices for the betterment of the team.

On a side note, I see the "it's a small player base, don't do X" argument always thrown around which is beyond trivial as the developer team always takes those things into account (the game is still here, they are still pumping out free content) and ironically, if those same people stopped complaining and picked up a skill to improve MS:C, the player base would probably grow more (tl;dr, same thread, Helpfulness section, talk less and do more).

But all in all we need to work together for the betterment of the game, which I typically define as keeping the game alive by creating new and/or exciting content for the audience. I hope you can understand I'm not trying to bash on you and I hope you can learn a few things from this post. Thanks for being so passionate about this game!

 

[DarkSnack]

Well I guess I'll give up on this idea then, I don't like this measure but still If that's what he wants to do so be it, atleast I hope I brought up new ideas.

And when I learn to code I guess I can help(Implying Thothie will ever accept me after this), but yeah sorry if there was any arrogance by my part and like he said I guess I'll just have to

deal with it

.

Have a nice day and I hope I see you all In-game.

 

[FreshMeat]

You want to learn to program or script? Learning to program would take a while, but learning the ms:c script would be easy enough! Though I think coding/scripting isn't really what ms:c is lacking, it's really lacking mappers. Geez if only there were like 20 more maps to play, that would solve a lot of problems.

 

[Stormshift]

Storm, we can nash it up whenever you want buddy. Unless there has to be a lot of people for the blood blade to drop, I dunno. But if we start a map with us 2 on nash, I think we can both agree than people will hop on and join us.

I'm definitely game for this. Would give me something to work towards again besides grinding for cap or power-leveling newbs in Daragoth/Thornlands.

 

[DarkSnack]

I guess I can learn a bit of mapping too, but ya I wanna learn how to program and script.

 

[zeus9860]

I guess I can learn a bit of mapping too, but ya I wanna learn how to program and script.

Wannabe Thothie.

 

[FreshMeat]

If you really want to learn, you have to get out of the "want to" mindset. You may not know it, but you have access to pretty much every single book ever written about computers at your very fingertips. All you gotta do, if you're serious that is, is to start reading. None of this "I want to", because everything you need is already here, you just gotta do it.

 

[Snebbers]

Don't mean to necro a thread from ages ago but I want to contribute my opinion here.

I don't know about you guys, but I enjoy Master Sword: Continued, and reading through this thread has made me giggle a little bit and has also highlighted MS:S to me. I don't want to insult anyone by saying this, but you all have valid points and everyone is right in a sense and I can see why people want it to be a specific way. At the end of the day though, who cares? Getting an Apostle (First I've read/heard this word) weapon is going to be anti-climatic, I don't really fancy being able to murder bosses, the jump from struggling through certain enemies to being able to mop the floor with them doesn't sound very fun (but saying that neither do I like it being impossible to solo). By nature I'm a bargain hunter, I have far too many games to play, let alone a mod of a really old game. (I'm talking ridiculous amounts of games here). Think of the play time required to get to level 45 now, it's a nightmare, I believe Stizz told me it was around 3.5million xp from 44 to 45. Credits to him he got to level 45.

All these shenanigans about the Felewyn Blade and Symbols and Apostle weapons, it's too much trouble, I've seen probably 15 different players maximum on at varying times of the day and I personally prefer to play with two friends of mine, but can play with others. I read about the FBlade and thought "Lol too much hassle." And another note is that I have found *2* Felewyn Symbols myself, so either there is a flaw in the system or people are smoking something funny.

Sure I could get the Fshard from my two friends that I play with, but I wouldn't want to deny them, I'd happily give them my shard/symbol for them. (Prime example is playing Borderlands 2 with my friends, I will ALWAYS give them the better weapon, purely because I understand the mechanics of my character better and my tastes are very precise.)

Also I threw away those 2 Symbols, sorry guys you can't have em considering they're being axed

TL;DR Too much hassle for me to get a single shard; can't be arsed to get the rest. I'd rather grind tomas and forge something that way. Or just play one of my 137 other Steam games.

Extra Note: I know absolutely nothing about this games lore because I'm sorry to say to people who have developed the mod, the lore is quite boring. I just like grinding experience points.

 

[zeus9860]

The lore might be boring in-game yes, but it's not that bad outside of it imo.

What stizz did was no big accomplishment, he did max out entirelly, that's an accomplishment on it's own but it's no big deal given what was around previous patch and was nerfed & undocumented this patch (there were no nerfs listed this patch at all).

If you were here back in 2008, you would see how really awfull it was grinding in ms:c, and it was even worst in older dates of the game. It took me 3 months to get 650-900hp, farming maps like bloodrose for xp, that was about the time i used in summer to reach the top of the list. Nowadays you can get 900hp in less than 3 weeks, if you are dedicated to it, doesn't take long to get there. Things get a bit slower from there, but it's still doable, at my level it's like i get 5-10% xp per sub towards a skill doing high level maps with 4-5 players in it, all level 41+ skills.

You shouldn't be worried about grinding that much, once higher tier maps come out and the cap is boosted again, xp values will eventually have to be more generous in higher tier maps in order to make 4+ grinding more affordable, meaning grinding will be even faster than it is now for us people who aren't maxed, don't waste time getting to 45 when the next cap will make it even easier for others. That's one thing to learn about ms:c.

 

[Thothie]

(there were no nerfs listed this patch at all)

That would be because there were none. Almost all the changes were code side, again, mostly about getting the damn game to work with the random engine updates. We've not had any real nerfs since 2012.

If you were here back in 2008, you would see how really awfull it was grinding in ms:

You shoulda been around in 2005, or just before, when it took a year to reach a rounded level 20 (p|Barnum having the distinction of being the first to get enough SC to cast Blizzard, after over a year of intense play, and finding it didn't work). Granted, there wasn't much to do once you got there, having maybe 1/8th of the number of maps to work with.

Suffice to say, by today's standards, the Felewyn Shard isn't even that great a sword (and it wasn't absolutely fantastic, even back when it was released). But people feel entitled to have every item, even the sh*tty ones, hence the whining (gawds, remember the fuss over the Wolfsbane!?). Since we can't control the distribution of the shards in any intuitive way, at the moment, I'm just removing them until we figure something out. The Apostle weapon they are supposed to be components for, not only doesn't exist, but is pretty far away any ways, and even it may not be so fantastical as quest related / special purposed. Not a lot of point of throwing out unique forge ingredients for a weapon and quest line that doesn't exist yet.

 

[Snebbers]

Can't argue with that.

You can do what you like with the apostle weapons (Like my opinion would change anything anyway). Because I probably won't be around for much anyway, seriously, so many games to play (And my OCD demands I get 100% completion on each and every game).

I'll probably get above 900 attempt to duo the wall, get bad loot, never play again.

 

[zeus9860]

OI, don't remove my farming hours now, i'll storm your @ss into oblivion if you do that. >_>

I would rather have it switched into another quest item nowhere related to the real thing, at least it would be something to keep and the current players wouldn't loose. You could even make a step forward with these two blades and forge them into one unique blade with both properties (holy and dark) with right click, turning it into an urdual blade wannabe.

According to someone you nerfed one xp grinding spot this patch, which was used to well... grind and hit the cap by a few (haven't tested it myself).
That was pretty much the only motivation that had a few people going, maxing out their levels and hit the cap and get ready for the next one. Since this current patch is "MEH" to everyone and their mother. Alot of people are not going to bother to come back when they hear bad news from their buddies who already played the new patch.

Anyways, it's not like i care right now. People like me, who find these spots and others eventually catch up using their own brains, start doing the samething, eventually spreads and the typical move is to nerf it and you know what comes after.

You shoulda been around in 2005, or just before, when it took a year to reach a rounded level 20 (p|Barnum having the distinction of being the first to get enough SC to cast Blizzard, after over a year of intense play, and finding it didn't work). Granted, there wasn't much to do once you got there, having maybe 1/8th of the number of maps to work with.

You seem to imply that everyone plays the sameway, there are some old veterans in this community that suck awfull when they play this game (not implying that Barnum is one of them, but i did see a few already). It's like they never adapted to the thing.

Given the nature of this game, i'm pretty sure there would be exploits going on about to quickly grind to level 20, even then, the legit way, it took Barnum 1 year to get there, then again people like him seemed to be rarelly active (in-game) in ms:c still.

That alone should point out that one who plays almost daily vs one who plays twice a week, could still grind the same amount of xp in 1/4 the time, it took me 3 months to grind back in 2008/09 to reach that high, but i wasn't grinding 24/7 either, there were days i did grind alot non stop, while other days i took a break with Team fortress classic skill maps (climbing, rocket jumping, concussion jumping, pipes, climbing, etc) or even do other stuff not related to gaming. Though i do remember reaching 2500+ hours on half life mostly due to ms:c by the time i quit ms:c after being done with the grinding, this was somewhere around june/july 2009. Said hours were removed later on from my profile idk why, probably for the best, otherwise, if i had all the hours stacking up untill today i would easily be around 4.5k hours or so.

Can't argue with that.

You can do what you like with the apostle weapons (Like my opinion would change anything anyway). Because I probably won't be around for much anyway, seriously, so many games to play (And my OCD demands I get 100% completion on each and every game).

I'll probably get above 900 attempt to duo the wall, get bad loot, never play again.

Everyone does that and eventually comes back to play for a while and vanishes again, some actually quit and never come back again.

 

[Thothie]

You seem to imply that everyone plays the sameway, there are some old veterans in this community that suck awfull when they play this game (not implying that Barnum is one of them, but i did see a few already). It's like they never adapted to the thing.

I should point out there were a lot more dedicated players back then. Rarely were there less than four full severs at any given time in that first year - as HL mods were still fairly popular. So no, it wasn't a matter of lack of skilled players... It was the fact that the highest XP you could get on any creature was 200XP (specifically Calrian and Keledros - and they had twice as much XP as the next highest critters)... And the meanest spell was fire dart... And the meanest weapon was the Perfect Skull Blade.

So it's a good thing I came along and nerfed things before that got out of hand.

 

[zeus9860]

I thought you wanted people to push the cap even higher by hitting it earlier... >_>

 

[Thothie]

I'd kinda like to get everyone in the mid range faster, as that's where most of our maps are, but I dun want them reaching the level wall any faster (I mean from a year+ to three weeks - I could make it take an hour, and you folks wouldn't be satisfied. )

But Oyster's comment on that is correct, most folks out match the low level maps well before they've visited them all - and that was true even before the FN XP boost. :\

 

[zeus9860]

You should have made a xp bonus system like i told you to, based in the map's difficulty, you would scale it properly for the players that were in it. That or boosting the xp calculation based on the average level in the server with a minimum amount of players required to take said calculation into play.

Personally i prefer the first, it would make more sense that early maps would have little to no bonuses when grinding, while the player got higher and higher, the maps would give more and more xp based on their level range and difficulty, making the hardest maps the most favorable grinding areas for higher level players, like it should be, alot of medium level maps have better xp/time ratios (like the ones that got nerfed the last few patches).

I also thought if it would be possible to adjust the xp for each player in the server based on their current level, like having a level 20 player get 12 xp from a rat while a level 40 gets 24xp from a rat (different xp values for each player so to say).

 

[Thothie]

Traditionally, for obvious reasons, you do the opposite. The more the player exceeds the level of the monster, the less XP you get for it - usually until it drops off to nadda, or 1. So the level 1 player gets full XP for a rat, while the level 20 player gets nadda, as it no longer constitutes any kind of threat. Which is how most RPGs prevent players from doing the infinite grind farm method. You can only grind so far before you have to find bigger game.

Granted, in a lot of those games, that goes both ways. As in, the more the mob exceeds your level, the less damage you can do to it. But that kinda kills the bit where a bunch of low level players gang bang critters beyond their level.

A lot of modern MPRPG's are doing this screwy hybrid bit, where low and high level players can work together because both the damage they do and the damage they take is scaled by a percentage... This makes the leveling a lot less important though, even if the higher level characters have a lot more abilities. It *would* be kinda nice to have it as some sort of voteable option, and maybe tweak the loot accordingly... But MSC's lack of a real leveling system means I couldn't begin to figure how to calculate such a mess. Such systems kinda depend on both the mobs and the players being tied to scaling levels (as do the previous approaches). It'd also, of course, also kill our biggest motivation for leveling - ie. the world effectively expanding as you go up levels.