Make swords great again 2k16

[Phosphorcracker]

Here we are once more trying to beg for some changes...

No for real doe, lets take a look at what the average msc player uses to smash the hordes of powerfull enemys. Lances, axes, hammers, daggers, some archery, martial arts... sounds about right. Ohhh noes ! We dont have any usefull swords !

Oh wait we do, the hoarfrost shard is a very versatile weapon and fshard is gonna claim its place too next patch.

The kind of sword that iam missing is a sword that can deal damage, sustain by outdpsing mobs. Acid lance, all the breakers, demon bludgeon hammer, about everything hits high above the 300s or in a speed that makes for amazing dps like dual vorpals etc. We have the unholy blade that performs quite formidable, or atleast ppl claim so, I dont own one and making atleast 4 twinks doesnt sound too attractive to me either, but thats nigh impossible to get nowadays.

My point is that I wish for a sword, or even swords, that lets you kill stuff. We might not even need new models for that one. A slight buff to blooddrinker or the blades that drop at nashalrath or whatever might already do the trick. I know the tales of blooddrinker being the strongest weapon in game, I dont call for it to take that place again but you cant deny the lack of swords with dps compared to other hightier weapons probably because we have no high tier swords.

How about a new craft, take like 2 blooddrinker, a bludgeon hammer, a few tomas, dark ones, we call it Berzerk sword, give it an attackspeed buff with charges like bludgeon and bäm dps sword problem solved. lets do it.

NVM i just tested blooddrinker and it got buffed when i wasnt looking, its okay

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

Make unholy blade track like blooddrinker, fixes every problem with this weapon. Its throw is fucking useless- it moves horribly slow and it hits 3 times.... make bloodblades do more damage or leech more, that's all they need (one or the other is all it needs). We have a model for an "orion sword." Put it ingame. Make it shoot a beam of light similar to the dark-staff, adding a level 20 or so weapon that's incredibly useful at that level range. The light beam could use mana, but leech health from enemies that are weak to holy and simply damage normal enemies.

I could go on a rant about bluntarms too...

 

[Phosphorcracker]

Blooddrinker feels okay after some testing, I still think that it would be a good idea to add a high level swords craft, firebreaker hits 400 charged on a blunt resistant mob, just sayan.

So a crafted sword from multiple blooddrinkers should range 180-360, 360 being max dmg for full charge 1 on a mob taking 1.00 damage from dark. Before you step up and claim that would be insane, dark weak mobs are rare imo and it would deal em 720 damage. inb4 thats too damn strong, it isnt. acid lance aka lance of affliction deals 600-800 damage on almost every mob there is in this game. Firebreaker hits 800 easy on fire weak mobs, so does ice reaver on iceweak mobs or lightningbreaker on lightning weak mobs... the list could go on. (iam sure ppl with double vorpals can confirm that vorpals have no struggles reaching compareable damage numbers)

As for the model: I dont know if we have spare swords floating around, but we can do with a retexture of blooddrinker for the time being.

Also shadowfire sword is agreed to be a collectors item with no practical use whatsoever.

 

[zeus9860]

How about upgrading the currently existing dark sword with even more charges, problem solved. Right now its capped at like 30 swords, with every 5 levels consuming more mana and doubling the damage or something like that. Sword takes time to charge but will hit like a truck and is short ranged, so there is risk involved when using it. Or have the sword remove part of the slowdown effect from urdual shield, so they complete each other as a set. Essentially a tank shield with a high damaging short sword that takes time to charge with some mobility from using both items as a matched set. We all know urdualian shield is pretty much useless right now for many reasons. Should also mention that its the best looking shield in the game, needs more attention imo.

If any new sword needs to be added to this game, it better be a hoarfrost blade or a greater hoarfrost. It's essentially one of the best items in this game and a must. Shadowblade is essentially the same as the novablade, kinda useless by the time you get it and completly outdamaged by many other items of the same tier.

Blood blades don't need more life leech, they are fine. They might need a little bit more damage though. Unholy blade does more damage but heals less than blood blades since its slower, basically you have more damage for less healing per second or more healing for less damage per second. Of course both options are outshined by other skills weaponry, which makes swords pointless right now. Unholy blade could apply the same debuff shadow lance has, it would make it worthwhile using the sword and obtaining it.

The skills that are doing fine right now is blunt, polearms (thanks to acid lance since it can hit most targets, otherwise would be a pain in the @ss with all the elemental switching), smallarms and archery (mostly good against multiple enemies or unholy/undeads).

The skills that need more attention are: spellcasting (obvious reasons, the staves are somewhat of an upgrade in the spellcasting field but it's not enough to be put on par with other skills), martial arts (has 2 weapons with both of them draining/burning mana way too fast), swords (i guess the only use for swords if the life leech, other than this they are useless) and axes (axes are doing slightly better than swords, they can compete with the fine skills and even surpass them if using certain potions).

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

This thread now has a 2 paragraph limit

 

[Phosphorcracker]

I agree on the point that spellcasting needs some rework or addition.

I dont agree with the buff of the unholy blade and say swords are fixed because nowadays farming for an Unholy Blade... nuff said.

I agree that a stronger version of Hoarfrost would do nicely.

But my concern is: swords are getting out dpsed by almost every other type of combat, magic being the one skill even worse. So we need, however implemented, a set of swords that can compete with the high tier weaponry of other skills. Preferably not locked behind the need to level twinks and pray for rngesus to get the right fshards, since nobody trades anything these days. Preferably packaged with some fun crafting or even new maps ( i might even be willing to dust off my mapping skills for that one).

I never used shields, never got my hands on a dark blade either. Dunno how that would change stuff.

If someone could share some numbers on the actual damage of bloodblades that would be great.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

Underkeep has a forge.

 

[greatguys1]

This thread now has a 2 paragraph limit

Can we do haikus?
I agree, swords need something
It's snowing on Mount Fuji.

 

[Phosphorcracker]

5-7-5 is a haiku m8

swords are weak, i cry
so weak they two hit critters
critters with one health

in a haiku club id probably get shot for this one, i used an emotion, i have not instigated a time, i didnt tell a concluding anything. 1/10 nailed 5-7-5.

 

[Thothie]

Swords rule over all
People complain too OP
Make other lines stronk

Now other lines stronk
People complain swords too weak
Thothie cannot win

...yeah, yeah, workin' on it...

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

One sword to rule them all. Apostle weapons when?

I want me a sweet one of a kind blunt arm

 

[Phosphorcracker]

Swords rule over all
People complain too OP
Make other lines stronk

Now other lines stronk
People complain swords too weak
Thothie cannot win

...yeah, yeah, workin' on it...

i bow before you for that one. Thats why I had mixed feelings talking about this, but I think I got it across that Iam well aware of the history swords. Thats also why i said like trice that I dont expect swords to become OP again. I want swords to become viable again outside of utility.

 

[Phosphorcracker]

Lets get some real talk happening,

http://puu.sh/rLuma/e01d1ef8d2.jpg not entirely happy with the color yet but it brings the idea across. Also gonna rework the handle, wood doesnt make too much sense on a fire themed sword i suppose. Also gotta paint over the black parts a bit, they feel too black as of now.

Here you have the kHed file the skin I made so far and the UVmap i was able to create https://www.dropbox.com/s/oje0424dkpvf2 ... e.rar?dl=0

Molten Blade - if you come up with some fancy name let me know,

Swords: 30-35 - probably more to 35/37
Attack type: slash/fire, firedot
Charge Attack: a fireball for some thick elemental damage or some aoe fire thingy, thinking about something like firebreaker charge.
The model could be scaled to be either 1h or 2h, iam not too sure what is wanted or needed.

PS can we give it a faint red glow script side ? would add to the feel IMO

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

I don't think we need another fire sword. I'd love to see a hoarfrost BLADE (takes 5 shards to make) or a Felewyn BLADE (takes 5 shards to make). That model could work for either or

 

[Phosphorcracker]

I think we are in need of a fireblade that doesnt utterly suck, unless i got missinformed on the suckiness of shadowfire blade ? also the next few maps are all fire themed, or atleast I got told so.

The ice skin i made didnt really come out well... https://puu.sh/rFVNU/4bc72abee8.jpg i tried to imitate a crystaline growth pattern... didnt really got it down doe. Plus i wasnt able to figure out how to get a seethrough skin.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

If you could make it seethrough it'd probably make it a lot better. The winter cleaver is ugly as sin too, so the texture isn't bad. It just needs the right effect. Also, I agree that we need a good fireblade. However, the firebreaker is the best high level fire weapon... Not every weapon class has to have the same high level weapon types. Having swords be dark and holy are cool, and having lances be acid is nice.

 

[Phosphorcracker]

Its a valid point that we dont have to have a hightier weapon for every element for every weapon class but on the long term I think it doesnt hurt either. Because I feel restricted if iam on a cold themed map and do everything with firebreaker when id rather want to use swords to get that skill up. This isnt so bad at lower tier maps but on a hard as diamonds challenging leet pro mlg op 420 rainbow cold themed map theres literally no option then.

And I had that idea of a sword with the optic of half frozen lava and really liked it so I just had to make it happen.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

Yeah a smoldering sword would be sick. I agree with you but I also agree with my point. I still think swords need the felewyn blade, but this would also raise the point of making other apostle weapons. As for other weapons, we don't need anything new in the game... we need to use the existing models that are not being used ingame (as opposed to ones stolen from Morrowind.)

 

[zeus9860]

Should rename your sword to firebrand sword.

It will either suck ass that it will require firebrand to compete with other high end gear (eg: phlames staff, even then it still kinda sucks unless you hit multiple targets, but i guess its ok for a fire-only weapon) or it will be too overpowered that it will end up getting items nerfed one way or another. Take your pick. :roll:

Fire weapons are overused, there are other ways to implement usefull items that won't rely on potions to become usefull. Fire is easy to level up, swords are lacking yes, but i would rather seeing something else than fire. Because i can already see what will become of this item without it even being ingame.

If cold doesn't work out, try another element that isn't used as often. Poison or Acid for example. But do keep in mind, it would probably be best to have good utility/support abilities in the weapon (no useless auras/barriers or copy pasted useless abilities kthx, those are as useless as parrying with 2h swords).

Here's an example for both poison and acid types (i would suggest as matching types 1-handed using both swords together, not the same type, eg: acid + poison would match but not poison + poison or acid + acid):

-swords req 30/32/34 or 35/37/39, affliction 32

-slash/elemental(dot)

-charge attack (poison): applies dot 100%, dot spreads to nearby enemies, the more enemies applied with the dot the stronger (or longer) the damage it deals. Could be done through an aura effect, hit a target, does an aura effect in a certain radius and applies the dot to the enemies inside it. Or could be a stronger poison cloud that spawns on the target you hit, enemies inside the cloud will get hit harder overtime from the poison. This sword can get the extra damage benefit from the acid counterpart.

-charge attack (acid): applies dot 100%, places a "prison" barrier around the enemy you target, enemies caught in the barrier receive increased damage for the duration of the barrier ( a minor boost to damage in exchange for a longer duration effect), enemies outside of the barrier will be left outside and won't be able to get in, players may go in or out. Barrier can be used to getaway or to act as a support ability.

-both charge attacks coming from a 1handed sword simply means there is actually an use for charged attacks in 1 handed items. Unlike blood blade, which you are better off just spamming non charged attacks.

Also, cold-wise i would rather see it as a 2h utility/support sword.


Quick EDIT:

But yeah, if you still want to make a firebrand 2h sword, here's my suggestion for new abilities:

-same sword reqs, switch affliction with fire

-slash/elemental (dot)

-charge attack (meele range), sword does two hits instead of 1, one that from the sword hitting the target and the second one coming from the ranged ability that can't be blocked (aka it's pure magic so no BS rng hit chance), second hit at meele range is weaker vs ranged distance.

-charge attack (ranged), sword does 1 hit of strong magic, maybe a large&slow homing fireball that knocksback enemies and leaves them burning for a while. Similiar to the burning one and his large fireball ability, if enemies are close to each other, the blast can spread the enemies a little and leaving them with burn.


1 handed fire swords are a big no, way too overpowered, the reasons should be obvious.

 

[Phosphorcracker]

the impending doom of fire weapons isnt fault of the fire weapon itself its spawned with the evil that is firebrand potion, also firebreaker does high damage even without fire brand. High enough on fire weak mobs that is.
(i still think this would fix itself with corresponding potions for the other element types)

There is no problem with making acid or poison swords other than calcifers point, if you come around with a good concept ill gladly make a model or a skin for an existing model doesnt need to be a full fledged 1080p HD picture just a sketch and some color ideas.

Also like I said I got told that coming maps are fire themed, would feel odd to loot the magical mystical thunder god sword in the caverns of fire aint it ?

Also you could force an offhand to the 1h sword, like u know, a set that cant be separated by players

And affliction is just as fire, used commonly and easy to level thanks to acid lance and dark staff.

something like this is absolutely sufficient as concept http://puu.sh/rMac5/47a152934b.jpg, could be a reskin of bloodblades without the stuff around the grip. Or a reskin of the katana http://puu.sh/rMaAR/982c607247.jpg

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

Stop fucking typing novels please

anyways

Rune blade of fire/acid when? Just because new maps are fire maps doesn't mean the items in them have to be specifically fire. In fact they don't even need "new" weapons, let alone weapons at all in them. Only fitting thing I can think of is the steam crossbow, existing ingame. The new axes should also be redistributed to other maps and be not impossible to get (sans spider axe which drops like peppermint candies)

 

[zeus9860]

Not even all maps follow that elemental logic you are trying to apply here, if the map is fire themed, it doesn't mean you should be getting fire themed weapons from it. It should instead be giving you other elemental weapons to use in said map aswell.

It's like when you go to sorc_villa, the orcs there love their lightning, yet they forge dark/vampyric/fire/cold/ethereal items and no lightning items. Then again, there are maps like phlames, that give fire based loot, which is overall useless on said map. People usually want to play the latest maps, if they are going to be fire themed and you give them fire themed items, you are basically giving them the middle finger indirectly.
Look at shender_east for a great example of unique drops from the main sector of the map, it rewards you with a fire hammer or a thunder hammer, map is mostly cold with some fire added to it here and there. Both weapons being usefull there, of course a cold hammer would do a better job than a lightning one, but who cares about that, as long as the item is effective, it's all that matters.

The problem with adding the fire sword would be that some pretty-poneys from the community would whine privately about how overpowered things are and get things nerfed eventually. Despite knowing that the game is utterly f*cked up and there is no possible fixing unless you wipe everything and rework from scratch. I'm pretty sure firebrand has already been reported a couple of times as an overpowered item, much like the swiftblade now which is common as tits with that one map everyone loves. Of course getting items nerfed sounds good, untill you get an unbalanced map that pushes you into a corner and then said items will be little of use because they aren't as good anymore, then said people will most likely complain about how messed up the new map is. I'm not against nerfing items, it's just that its way too late to be doing changes like this (potions only need to become RARE for them to be balanced but its too late for this). One of the bosses from said map that everyone loves is highly resistant to most types of damage, acid and fire (with firebrand) are usually the way to go to deal with this one target, now imagine, firebrand gets nerfed, what will you use to kill it now, acid damage? Or maybe you fancy some vorpal daggers with the minuscule range while the boss zaps you with dizzy/drunk effects along with knockback and constantly teleporting in and out every few seconds, sounds like a great plan.

Also, according to Thothie, he wants fire element to remain the strongest, this was stated some years ago when i questioned him something, i forgot exactly what it was. Giving other elements brands would make fire pointless, unless said brands would be like "25% extra damage from lightning and cold and 50% from divination and affliction".

Anyways, a lil bit of off-topicness now. About wipes, i would be in favor of a character wipe if proper balancing was implemented (green potions being rare and would require to be made through ingredients, some basic greens would be sold in shops) with a worthwhile economy system (plus some added bonuses like smiths actually doing something for us in towns). Stuff like this... totally worth the wipe, it's like a fresh new and improved game.

 

[Phosphorcracker]

I have no clue how you get the idea i want a firebrand nerf. Fire being stronk is no problem to me.

I dont know I am just used to that, go to a fire cave, loot fire items, makes perfect sense to me. Its probably better to drop crossfade.

Every element has its strong points, and I can see that working for some parts so not everything is totally fucked up.

Undercliff being borked as is just happened, I dont like running that map at all, throwing on my aob and run mobs down with infinite lives isnt my style. Magically having infinite amounts of spider protection gpop fbrand swiftblade manafont etc is the only way one could run that map without being shredded by that rainbow dps of the map. Also think about that acid plate, fire immunity, cold immunity, lodestone juice, only thing left to do damage to you is 12.5% physical, 12,5% poison (preventable by antidote) and 5% acid (assuming linear multiplicative scaling) that would be further reduced for spiders. So the mobs are scaled to be a threat to a player that runs around with all them buffs stacked.

I dont think a full whipe is what would resurrect the mod. Rather than that I think that would be the last nail in the coffin. Also the issue with potions is that they are the source of their own problem... new maps tend to be harder than what already is there. Knowing that and overdoing the trend mappers make their maps so hard, they just assume everybody has a full set of the strongest potions at disposal. So ppl have a high demand and for reasons that demand got answered.

Also true is that even if you wouldnt loot a billion potions from undercliff ppl would go to sorc_villa and buy potions there, i cant recall if he sells swiftblade potion but about every other potion ingame is buyable there. So making potions rare in maps is a moot point if you can just buy em with the millions of gold ppl have.

Having a meaningfull economy can only happen with a certain amount of players, demanding and offering, crafting potions sure sounds like a sweet idea but wont fix a thing as there is no global timing for respawn on resources, ppl would just reload maps farm items and have billions of potions that way.

 

[Thothie]

So Hush just got these for us...
clicky
Hrmmm... What do...

Just for the record, I wanted fire to do the most DPS - though not necessarily be "the most powerful" as unlike the other elements, it offers DPS, and nothing else. (Lots of things resist it.)

Acid is just about exploitive and not really that different from Dark save that it doesn't add contamination, which has next to no effect, at the moment.

I *could* make potions rarer, if I see less rainbow DPS in these next few maps, but I doubt I'm going to. You can always buy potions, but it's a long run for one of each. (Lest you got friends to mooch on.)

I also kinda like to theme the weapon locations to their elements, sometimes - but only when I'm sure there's a map of the same level full of mobs of the appropriate counter element, or the end treasure has other expendable items of high value, as, yeah, otherwise it is flippin the bird a bit.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Hrmmm... What do...

Any stolen content left we can replace with some of these?