votemap destroys MS:C

[ReBoot]

No, really. With votemap, MS:C seems like a normal powergaming game: votemap mapwithalotofmonsters, votemap mapwithsomeshops.

While walking, MS:C actually looks like a world. Something to explore, somewhere to travel. A role playing game. With votemap, it's just a bunch of maps with monsters to kill. Playing for myself, I always walk. Playing online, I often meet people why only do what I mentioned above.

That's sad, I'd like to see a world instead of just a bunch of maps.

 

[The Man In Black]

And what about if you're on a map that doesn't connect to the world? Or if CotBG were to connect, what if you were on Skycastle? You would have to go through the map series (For the most part) backwards.

I think the system is fine with the new Gauntlet system set up. Just make it so that there are more gauntlets, like (And this may be already in, but I can't check) you can't votemap to Keledros, but have to go through it. I don't know, though. The idea of making people walk rather than warp-farming is a kind of nice thought. It would add more work for players, but that may be good.

Wow, that was ramble-tastic.

 

[DarkWasp]

I agree... Get rid of it.

 

[Thothie]

Well, I keep statistics on map popularity.

One of the side effects of the map vote system, and having so many custom maps, atm, is that no one goes to any of the vanilla maps anymore.

Basically, if people have to walk, they won't go. People scream and moan "Challs!? But we'd have to walk!"

I've actually been considering running the ultra-vote option on my server as a result. Meaning you could vote for any map, and people might actually visit vanillaville.

The only maps that can't be voted in people have gone to on my server this month are Sfor, and Thornlands.

I fear if I remove the vote system completely, people will ONLY go to custom maps. (Which is pretty much where we're at.)

Votemap is the ONLY way to get to custom maps, so ya have to keep it for them at least. (Plus the anti-crash aspect)

Next month I may introduce a cvar to restrict voting to custom maps and touch-trans only, but I wouldn't dare run it on my own server.

 

[LukeW]

yeah I originally started the ultra-vote-map system with thothie simply as a workaround for the crash on mapchange problem.

If the map changes were seamless, you only need 60% of the server pop to transition, and we had mappers adding entrances to custom map levels in the real-world levels... then yeah. I'd support ditching votemap.

But we don't, and I'd rather have a fun, functional powergaming experience than a buggy, half-working, exclusive (no custom maps) immersing experience.

 

[ReBoot]

I see that you're right, but it is sad. Seems like I'll have to collect some people by myself to experience MS:C as a world instead of some separated powergaming maps.
Anyway, doesn't MS:C already contain loads of maps to explore? There are only few which are played and the majority of the included maps never appears. I am not against custom maps, I just wonder why people play the same maps over and over again.

 

[Thothie]

nightmare_thornlands has ...(does math)... 24x the plays of any other map on my system, so, yeah, farmers.

I dunno if I can rig up some bizzare system where people can only visit the same map so often, or, somethin.

 

[LukeW]

Haha, tell you what, when I get my computer back from my insurance company, and I finish moving into my new place I'll be setting up 'Z?' again.

But it will run like this:

I'll be trying to set up another central server, much akin to Fuznet, but it will be applied for, and policed.

Servers on said central server will run without votemap, but can still give play to custom maps on a raid schedule. Planned 'outings' to approved custom map gauntlets on daily/weekly schedules.

What I'd like to do, and see from other servers and mappers that will run with this:

- non-competing raid schedules. One server could be running the default map list, one could be running a raid for levels 15-25, one 25-40, etc.

- No vote map!

- Balanced time limits AND balanced player caps on gauntlet maps or raids, to make it challenging to get to the very end, and get a "raid item"


Thats the basic idea, and I'm sure with a couple people working modestly on the project, it could be fun and well executed. Tell me what you think.

 

[The Man In Black]

I think most people around here are against a new central server. They like their characters ;-)

 

[LukeW]

Yeah. Well, if thats peoples priorities, don't complain about the games powergaming state. Either way, I'm indifferent.

 

[Lanethan]

I agree with ReBoot, in that the game feels so much more compelling to me when its a world that has to be moved through and experienced rather than jumping from place to place. However, the difficulties with movement through the world and the current player population (mostly powergamers) means that in order to maintain even MS:C's current level of popularity many aspects of the game have to be tailored to fit their needs.

Me, I still walk everywhere, unless I want to try a custom map.

 

[ReBoot]

Maybe, there could be an NPC. A teleport mage or a ship owner who would get people to custom maps listed in a special text file? At least, that would make custom maps reachable without voting stuff.

 

[DarkWasp]

Maybe, there could be an NPC. A teleport mage or a ship owner who would get people to custom maps listed in a special text file? At least, that would make custom maps reachable without voting stuff.

You know, you are onto something there.

It could be a simple text file like.

custommaps.txt

//Name, Desc (what the NPC calls it)

IAMcustom.map, "The Tomb of The Undead"
MSFlatlands.map, "The Uber So-Close-To-A-Cheatmap Farming Paradise"

That way the mage could say...

Where would you like to go?

(menu pops up)

1. The Tomb of The Undead
2. The Uber So-Close-To-A-Cheatmap Farming Paradise


(btw I made up the mapnames so dont ask me for Flatlands)

 

[Sabre]

Actually, that's a good idea...And you could have the NPC accept payment in Crystals of Relocation, or something.

 

[The Man In Black]

How would you get back from these custom maps?

 

[evilsquirrel]

leave the server for 30 minutes and let it auto back to edana, of course :roll:

 

[ReBoot]

They should have a transition area to a "normal" map or a kind of trigger which would make a "area complete" action and trigger a level change to edana/deralia.

 

[DarkWasp]

Well we for sure we'd need a /voteedana

 

[Slaytanic_pb]

I'd like to mention this is NOT EQ or WoW. I LIKE being able to votemap and not having to run though various maps just to get to the map I want. If you LIKE to run through the maps, then do it, make your map runs. If you want to make this into EQ or WoW, then go play that and let this game be fun for those who DON'T want EQ or WoW. Yes, I like the fantasy aspect of the game and being able to build a character. What's even better is that I can go where I want and there is not so many hoops and guild crap to deal with in order to play the game. I really don't want to see EQ or Wow for Half-Life.

 

[DarkWasp]

Come back and say that when they put EQ or WoW in a first person engine.


I learned from Oblivion (compared to Morrowind). That adding quick travel subtracts about 12% from how long you continue to play the game.

 

[Thothie]

Well now you can choose! (Or, at least your host can):

• Three new vote systems, set cvar as desired:
- ms_votemap_type 0 - the classic system: allows votes for adjacent maps
- ms_votemap_type 1 - retricted voting: allows votes only at transitions
- ms_votemap_type 2 - ultra voting: vote for any map you can name (amx_ultra_vote no longer works - use this instead)
- all modes also allow you to vote for root towns and custom maps (as defined by your custommaps cvar)
- all modes prevent voting into gauntlet and boss maps

Some people love the votemap system, some people hate it - to each their own. Suffice to say, since the game ain't perfectly stable yet, and not all the maps are connected yet, there has to be some sort of system in place. I figure eventually we'll move closer to something like type 1, as we have more ways for NPCs to teleport you around maps with horses, spells, etc.

Just so long as you can join any active server, I'm happy. (Twas my only problem with the original system.)

There aren't very many servers up, atm, so I dun dare run restricted mode, maybe when there are more of them I'll do it and see what the impact is.

 

[Jax]

Maybe, there could be an NPC. A teleport mage or a ship owner who would get people to custom maps listed in a special text file? At least, that would make custom maps reachable without voting stuff.

Agreed. It should be a chain service, like the bankers in Edana, Deralia, and Helena. If you can do that, then you will be able to prevent people from warping from town to town any time they want.

I personally like to walk instead of votemap my way around. Sure, I like votemapping to landmarks like Helena or Edana if that's exactly where we're headed (or we're going out of a custom map), but I just find it a pain in the ass when people just fly through maps.

For some maps (e.g. Thornlands), votemap to adjacent areas should be stopped. The only drawback there could be of doing that is that AFKers may render transition votemap impossible. :roll:

 

[Thothie]

For some maps (e.g. Thornlands), votemap to adjacent areas should be stopped. The only drawback there could be of doing that is that AFKers may render transition votemap impossible.

That's why I gave you "votekick"

Just votekick [partialname] in chat.

 

[Netrogor]

ReBoot, just because you wanna actually RP throughout MSC... I'm gonna abuse my changelevel powers on my own HLDS server a lot more now

Screw votemapping when you can force a map change without crashing (since my changelevel command works as of late without crashing)

 

[ITS'aME'aMARIO!!!!]

I'm sure this has already been stated by Thothie...

Votemap is a temporary solution for mapchange crashes at least in the vanilla maps...

The game was originally intended to have ALL players run their lil asses to the next area.

I'm definetely sure as "soon" (lawl) as the map changing crashes are fixed, we will have to run our lil asses to, line up, and crouch to try and fit people into transitions! XD

I like the restricted votemap system.