The new magic.

[evilsquirrel]

Seems to me that magic is SEVERELY overpowered and underleveled in the current master sword, so lets change around how it works a bit...

firstly, the level categories:

Power: the base power of ALL spells
Ability: what level of spells can you use?


that way, you wouldn't have to level up absurd ammounts of subskills to get one spellcasting level...of course, to balance it out - you might end up needing level 18 for fireball

 

[Netrogor]

You talking about making the sublvls categories responsible for what spells you can use?? If so; that is a nice idea, so you can actually train an individual category that way to level up & use (so if you concentrate on using fire spells, your fire-category lvls up & you can use stronger fire... & likewise for lightning, ice, & divination)

A shame that such system isn't in effect for MSC right now...

 

[vecraude]

Yea thats a pretty good idea and would increase the entertainment of the game quite a bit...When ya lvl for a certain spec wether it be fire or ice or wind or whatever...you can go up in spells for that spec instead of having to do insane amounts of lvling just to go up in spells.

 

[The Man In Black]

I think what he's saying is that, rather than a fire, lightning, ice, etc., sub-category, you would just have the power, ability, (one other?).

 

[evilsquirrel]

think up another that actually adds to it, and i'll add it.


and if this was in, "magic" would be a skill like the others - so instead of leveling specifics you'd level magic in general.

 

[Netrogor]

Ahh, so that's what you meant? That's an awesome idea too! It'd fix a lot of issues... specifically the thing with how Protection & Summoning hold you back so much from leveling up SC -_-

SO ALL HAIL FOAMY'S SUGGESTION (ahahaha squirrel ).

 

[The Man In Black]

Net, this is SOURCE. If protection and summoning are even added, they'll probably work..

 

[Netrogor]

I am assuming that MS: Source is being setup by people very similar, if not the same, as those who did MSC; am I right in that?

If so, then there will likely be similar issues (since Thothie is the one who knows how to fix them, while the other coders work on something new... whilst not seeing old mistakes)....

In that sense; Squirrel's suggestion may save us from that sublvl hell with things like SC

 

[The Man In Black]

Well, since it IS a new game though and the devs have hopefully learned from past mistakes, they will be making sure the categories work or just not adding them.

Besides, I don't think they have a coder, yet, much less the same one who made the evil code we have now.

 

[Thothie]

I sent another coder their way, but I dunno what will happen with it. This one has an HL2 mmorpg of his own he's working on - I dunno if they can merge the two projects together or something.

I can't think of a way to salvage the current spell casting system though - I think any new system would have to be done from scratch.

Lanethan's intent was that there be no huge spectacular AOE spells originally, I suspect. I like to have them though. But I think you can't run them off the same, easily replenished mana system. The bigger, nastier spells I think would have to a limited # of casts per day, or require some expendable item that you'd have to go buy/find more of to use again. Several spells I can't even think of a good, non-exploitable way to apply (ie. Volcano) and may just have to be axed entirely.

 

[evilsquirrel]

heh, are we going to get XP penalties for multiclassing, too?


but yesh, some more powerful spells that you can only use X times per day would be nice...but there should still be normal spells, which draw on your mana instead of spells per day

( )

 

[ITS'aME'aMARIO!!!!]

Super powerful spells should require you to stand still, take a long ass time to cast, incredibly high SC levels, ANND if you are struck the casting is cancelled.

my 2 cents if casting humongous spells is really a balancing problem

 

[evilsquirrel]

howbout they take at least six seconds

 

[Blasto121]

personally I think instead of setting a time delay on it, why not have an interface come up with randomly positioned dots, the goal to hit every dot as fast as you can to ready the spell. The higher level spells could have more dots to press before preparing as to prevent really powerful spells from being cast really fast.

I just really like the idea of a more interactive magic system.

 

[The Man In Black]

The sounds PAINFULLY interactive and doesn't make much sense...

 

[Blasto121]

maybe its PAINFULLY interactive for you, but its just an idea.

 

[Netrogor]

I think that idea actually sounds pretty good...

If you've ever played "System Shock 2" you will have a much better grasp of what Blasto's talking about... for when you hack into vending machines or doors

A system similar to that would be pretty fun... and could help balance out powerful AOE spells some...

Now, first off to you Thothie... why not badger down a few coders for MSC? To help fix it up... you know, so MS: Source has something presentable for what they came from? People who love older, more classical games (like myself) will enjoy MS:S that much more if MSC rocks too

Secondly, to squirrel; don't ever even hint at disabling multi-classing... ever again. I've seen a bunch of posts about making MSC a bit more realistic... in this case I will go with them... in real life you can learn as many skills as you want, without any form of penalty. So... HA! Only real life penalties you get are that, once you are old & wrinkly (like sixty years old), you have poor memory, a lower IQ, and that makes learning new things difficult.

EDIT:
When I say disabling, I mean making it harder to multi-class

 

[ITS'aME'aMARIO!!!!]

I guess another step would be maybe giving players "Talents"

that's WoW isn't it?

Anywho... Like certain skills will level faster than others... Maybe a player's "talents" can be either hidden... or chosen... Hidden would be the most realistic and fun haha...

 

[Netrogor]

Realism sux0rz though... but a talents system would be nice...

Like if you defeat one of the most powerful bosses in the game, whoever did the most damage will receive a permanent bonus (aka your talent thing) that'll give them more XP than normal with whatever weapon they used to primarily waste the boss...

That'd be awesome... give us an actual REASON to fight bosses, when item spawns are so low

And to make sure it isn't abused, it could be a one-bonus-thing... where each skill will only get the bonus once, and even then it could give something kinda weak... like either ten-percent more experience from kills (ten percent more than what you would normally get, I mean) or ten-percent more damage in that area

 

[[A]]

How about you have to maintain the target within a given retical; if said target leaves the reticle, whether it attacks you or not, the sell is cancelled.

The spell is not cancelled by being attacked.

Similarly, you could have an amount of text apear on the screen - it acts as a guideline to a command. The player must write all of the text accurately and precisely in order to successfully cast. Speed depends upon typing skill, and so it actually relies on a real skill, albeit one unrelated.

 

[Shurik3n]

Ah, I actually like that idea. Maybe instead of typing a phrase it could just be an 8 letter combo using only your movement keys (w,a,s,d for most) since you won't be moving while casting the spell. Also, instead of the actually letters maybe rune type letters that are always the same to a specific direction. For example:

Forward = *
Left = $
Right = @
Back = &

The combo you get is **$@&&*@. So you would have to tap forward twice (w) then left, right, back twice etc.

Since they aren't actually the real keys or directions it would take some work, giving people who frequently use magic more skill at it.

 

[Jelly]

Though, it would have to be buttons which all keyboards are combatible with. There's some signs I can't write in MSC, and if that happened to MS:S too, with the exact ones, which I need to use for spells, it would be rather annoying.

 

[Shurik3n]

No the signs were example for "runes" of some sort that would just be sprites that appear on your screen, it would work for everybody because they wouldn't represent a key, but a movement like +forward.

 

[[A]]

I see that he means this:

The power (level, et cetera) of your spells doesn't apply to individual spells. It applies to every bit of magic you do, thus eliminating all the grinding involved with spell-leveling (let's not be EverQuesters). And the ability would apply to each spell individually because using a fireball wouldn't upgrade your control over lightning.

 

[[A]]

Ah, I actually like that idea. Maybe instead of typing a phrase it could just be an 8 letter combo using only your movement keys (w,a,s,d for most) since you won't be moving while casting the spell. Also, instead of the actually letters maybe rune type letters that are always the same to a specific direction. For example:

Forward = *
Left = $
Right = @
Back = &

The combo you get is **$@&&*@. So you would have to tap forward twice (w) then left, right, back twice etc.

Since they aren't actually the real keys or directions it would take some work, giving people who frequently use magic more skill at it.

To add to that, perhaps spells would become like Mortal Combat and Street Fighter with insanely impossible shit-fuck-tarded-ass-gougingly-rapegasmicly difficult combos that nobody would be a mage except for a few people, even if it was eight keys only. I understand that you don't mean to imply any relation between those two things, but I drew the conclusion of it.

How about... each spell has a name and, to use the spell, you're required to type it out in the chat window? If struck successfully, it either degrades the significance of the spell or cancels the process (canceling, in my opinion, is fucking absurd!). Additionally, this also depends on a user's skill - remembering the spell's name correctly, typing is quickly, and keeping a steady aim all-together. Semi-difficult, vastly interactive, makes sense, centers around spells themselves and not random stupid shit, and would require adaptation as opposed to immediately aptitude, such as choose and click with the target in reticle.