Skinner required: Elephant

Gurluas

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Would it have been just as good if people who only saw some tidbits say it sucked and lacked any depth?
My maps are not finalized nor released so shut up.
 

HumanSteak

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Maybe you should just say what the whole plot is, at that point. The way things are right now, nobody wants to even hear about your lore or maps because for all the bits we heard of, it sounds like a joke and an obcession. So I think you should just spoil the whole plot in the writings section. At this point, it can't be any worse but if some people actually read the whole thing and think it's good, it might just get better, not any worse. No offense meant.
 

FER

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Seriously.

If you just shat your mouth and only focused on finishing your map series, things would have gone more smoothly.

Personally, I don't give a shit about your obsessive fanfiction or MSC's story, im more interested in seeing a new map or gameplay additions or polishing of the existing ones, after all its a fucking game. If I wanted to dwell with stories then I go to other mediums with actual intelligent writing like books or a fucking (well directed) movie, instead of pretending games like Planetscape Torment are smart.
 

Gurluas

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FER said:
Seriously.

If you just shat your mouth and only focused on finishing your map series, things would have gone more smoothly.

Personally, I give a **** about your obsessive fanfiction or MSC's story, im more interested in seeing a new map or gameplay additions or polishing of the existing ones, after all its a **** game. If I wanted to dwell with stories then I go to other mediums with actual intelligent writing like books or a **** (well directed) movie, instead of pretending games like Planetscape Torment are smart.

Actually unlike some people I AM working on it.
And it WILL have interesting new additions to the game, new items, new landscapes, new monsters, and new quests.

And Humansteak I know what you mean but I want players to experience it themselves, its a puzzle they need to discover... the new map series will not be linear, it will be akin to Edana, Thornlands, Mscaves, Bloodrose etc.

Now lets not derail this thread further, this is about elephants.
 

zeus9860

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Gurluas said:
this is about elephants.

Elephant ≠ Mammoth.

Or should i say that, elephants aren't meant to be an aggressive species. They might be if facing a danger (such as a predator) but other than that they aren't agressive. They could be used for a mean of transportation by some other creature though.

Or we can call it a day, and say this model is a mammoth, and presume that mammoths are agressive due to their big-ass teeth.
 

TheOysterHippopotami

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The message is in the plot i don't want to post it on the forums for everyone ... Would have been the same as if the Half-Life writers leaked the plot on the internet.
I could be wrong on this issue, but Lanethan seemed to have no problem leaking his entire plot to the internet.

As for the naming... Its same deal in the current lore. Thornlands are called Thornlands not cliffylandscape.. Daragoth is called Daragoth not continent.
That's true, but you could call either of them 'Arathas' and it would change nothing.

There is a deep plot relating to emotions. I dont who why you people are after me this much when there are maps that are WAY worse without any lore or meaning at all, those maps are simply loot pinatas.
I would rather have a loot pinata than maps that completely alter the course of the MSC mythos.
Furthermore, most of those loot pinata maps actually do as much, if not more for MSC than your entire body of work. They flesh out the geography of Daragoth. They make the continent we are on more interesting. Your lore does not do this.

Personally, I don't give a **** about your obsessive fanfiction or MSC's story, im more interested in seeing a new map or gameplay additions or polishing of the existing ones, after all its a **** game. If I wanted to dwell with stories then I go to other mediums with actual intelligent writing like books or a **** (well directed) movie, instead of pretending games like Planetscape Torment are smart.
This, this, and this. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to try to actually contribute something tangible. Lore is something that can be written by any one of us, and without practice or study. The amount of skill that it takes to write a story is next to zero when compared to the skill it takes to: Make maps, models, music, skins and textures, etc. (Unless you write like Jack London or something, which you don't. I don't need to add 'no offense' because it's more than okay to not be that good at something xD)


Actually unlike some people I AM working on it.
And it WILL have interesting new additions to the game, new items, new landscapes, new monsters, and new quests.
Bu WHY can't it be set in Daragoth!? That's all we want, really. We just want MasterSword to take place in the MS universe. Not the Gurluas universe.

Or should i say that, elephants aren't meant to be an aggressive species. They might be if facing a danger (such as a predator) but other than that they aren't agressive. They could be used for a mean of transportation by some other creature though.
Not entirely true, Zeus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musth
 

Gurluas

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TheOysterHippopotami said:
The message is in the plot i don't want to post it on the forums for everyone ... Would have been the same as if the Half-Life writers leaked the plot on the internet.
I could be wrong on this issue, but Lanethan seemed to have no problem leaking his entire plot to the internet.

As for the naming... Its same deal in the current lore. Thornlands are called Thornlands not cliffylandscape.. Daragoth is called Daragoth not continent.
That's true, but you could call either of them 'Arathas' and it would change nothing.

There is a deep plot relating to emotions. I dont who why you people are after me this much when there are maps that are WAY worse without any lore or meaning at all, those maps are simply loot pinatas.
I would rather have a loot pinata than maps that completely alter the course of the MSC mythos.
Furthermore, most of those loot pinata maps actually do as much, if not more for MSC than your entire body of work. They flesh out the geography of Daragoth. They make the continent we are on more interesting. Your lore does not do this.

Personally, I don't give a **** about your obsessive fanfiction or MSC's story, im more interested in seeing a new map or gameplay additions or polishing of the existing ones, after all its a **** game. If I wanted to dwell with stories then I go to other mediums with actual intelligent writing like books or a **** (well directed) movie, instead of pretending games like Planetscape Torment are smart.
This, this, and this. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to try to actually contribute something tangible. Lore is something that can be written by any one of us, and without practice or study. The amount of skill that it takes to write a story is next to zero when compared to the skill it takes to: Make maps, models, music, skins and textures, etc. (Unless you write like Jack London or something, which you don't. I don't need to add 'no offense' because it's more than okay to not be that good at something xD)


Actually unlike some people I AM working on it.
And it WILL have interesting new additions to the game, new items, new landscapes, new monsters, and new quests.
Bu WHY can't it be set in Daragoth!? That's all we want, really. We just want MasterSword to take place in the MS universe. Not the Gurluas universe.

Or should i say that, elephants aren't meant to be an aggressive species. They might be if facing a danger (such as a predator) but other than that they aren't agressive. They could be used for a mean of transportation by some other creature though.
Not entirely true, Zeus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musth


. So you can read about the Death of Malgoriand? Or what happens in every zone?, the basic backstory is in the writings section. Also my story IS set in the Ms universe, just not Leann... Don't call it the Gurluas universe please, you haven't seen that.

I want the players to discover the story themselves...Through the game.
As for the work, I'm on it, my only problem is that I am not a good mapper :/

Also who said the elephants are aggressive?, they are docile unless provoked...Or in mating season, theres some other creatures you will fear.
 

TheOysterHippopotami

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So you can read about the Death of Malgoriand? Or what happens in every zone?, the basic backstory is in the writings section. Also my story IS set in the Ms universe, just not Leann... Don't call it the Gurluas universe please, you haven't seen that.
By 'MS Universe' I was talking about Leann. Perhaps the words 'Gurluas universe' was ill-phrased, but my point still stands. You are branching the 'universe' out in to many different places. I will use music as an example because it's the only worthwhile skill I have:

Good composers, generally speaking, do not constantly create new material. They recycle their initial ideas, and often times even repeat them note-for-note. Contrary to this is the amateur composer, who thinks it is a good idea to generate new material for every every ten seconds. The latter example creates music that is confusing. 'Schizophrenic' is a good word for it. It is music that cannot be followed exactly from start to finish. It would be a very difficult task to 'sing the music' back, from start to finish, in your head after listening to it 100 times, let alone 1 time. Contrast this with, say, Beethovens 5th Symphony which is very easy to follow, even for after one listen, even for a five year old. Every note in every section sounds 'right' and flows perfectly. There are surprises, but no random ideas. Furthermore, EVERY note is in some way related to the three opening "dun dun dun DUUUUUN" notes.

The point I am trying to make is that good art, like Beethovens music, is organic in the exact same way that a human body is organic. The body has independent parts, like the brain, heart and liver. However, take away one of the parts and you kill the whole organism. Go to http://www.newgrounds.com and find some music at random. Is it possible to change parts of the song and still make it sound good? If it's on newgrounds (a place for amateurs), most likely the answer is yes. But what happens if you change one single note in any section of Beethovens 5th? You ruin the 'whole organism'.

This is the hallmark of quality in art, irrespective of the genre. Ask yourself this 'If I change something in my lore, will it still be good?' If the answer to this question is yes, then you're lore is lacks unity. It is 'Schizophrenic'. Lack of unity and randomness is the hallmark of bad art.


As for the work, I'm on it, my only problem is that I am not a good mapper :/
Your problem is that you do not devote enough time to mapping. The time you have spent working on your lore could have molded you into an A+ mapper by now.
 

Gurluas

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TheOysterHippopotami said:
So you can read about the Death of Malgoriand? Or what happens in every zone?, the basic backstory is in the writings section. Also my story IS set in the Ms universe, just not Leann... Don't call it the Gurluas universe please, you haven't seen that.
By 'MS Universe' I was talking about Leann. Perhaps the words 'Gurluas universe' was ill-phrased, but my point still stands. You are branching the 'universe' out in to many different places. I will use music as an example because it's the only worthwhile skill I have:

Good composers, generally speaking, do not constantly create new material. They recycle their initial ideas, and often times even repeat them note-for-note. Contrary to this is the amateur composer, who thinks it is a good idea to generate new material for every every ten seconds. The latter example creates music that is confusing. 'Schizophrenic' is a good word for it. It is music that cannot be followed exactly from start to finish. It would be a very difficult task to 'sing the music' back, from start to finish, in your head after listening to it 100 times, let alone 1 time. Contrast this with, say, Beethovens 5th Symphony which is very easy to follow, even for after one listen, even for a five year old. Every note in every section sounds 'right' and flows perfectly. There are surprises, but no random ideas. Furthermore, EVERY note is in some way related to the three opening "dun dun dun DUUUUUN" notes.

The point I am trying to make is that good art, like Beethovens music, is organic in the exact same way that a human body is organic. The body has independent parts, like the brain, heart and liver. However, take away one of the parts and you kill the whole organism. Go to http://www.newgrounds.com and find some music at random. Is it possible to change parts of the song and still make it sound good? If it's on newgrounds (a place for amateurs), most likely the answer is yes. But what happens if you change one single note in any section of Beethovens 5th? You ruin the 'whole organism'.

This is the hallmark of quality in art, irrespective of the genre. Ask yourself this 'If I change something in my lore, will it still be good?' If the answer to this question is yes, then you're lore is lacks unity. It is 'Schizophrenic'. Lack of unity and randomness is the hallmark of bad art.


As for the work, I'm on it, my only problem is that I am not a good mapper :/
Your problem is that you do not devote enough time to mapping. The time you have spent working on your lore could have molded you into an A+ mapper by now.

Its not all about Leann, taking a side-step to see something related to the Loreldians is not the end of the world, its just a few maps...You are not leaving Leann, and the other questlines I may plan will be on Leann, however I plan to expand Valen since it is underdeveloped compared to Daragoth. There is a valid reason for this temporary branching.
You can change details yes, but you cant change the important things. Would Lanethan's lore be ruined if the Loreldians were called Eldar instead?...No. I have my lore set in stone for good this time, actually I'm sending you the draft I showed Thothie.

And...Its also about talent, I do not have the talent for mapping.
And now lets get back to Elephants, theres a nice little thread called Gateway in the writing section which was made to discuss this map series.
 

TheOysterHippopotami

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I have my lore set in stone for good this time, actually I'm sending you the draft I showed Thothie.
Alrighty, send it my way.

And...Its also about talent, I do not have the talent for mapping.
This is a terrible excuse that I see people making all the time. Talent factors at the end, not at the beginning. Talent is the difference between two people who spent 1,000 hours learning to map.
However, it is a complete myth (and a myth that needs to be shattered) that natural talent is required to be good at something. Being talented at mapping will make it easier. But being untalented does not mean you can't make a map that is really good. You simply have to work harder than those who were 'born with it'.
I was born with very little musical ability. Despite that, I am still a better musician than many people I know who are blatantly more talented than I am. Why? Because I out worked them. It's that simple.

In short, talent is the predisposition to skill, not the prerequisite to skill.
 

Gurluas

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TheOysterHippopotami said:
I have my lore set in stone for good this time, actually I'm sending you the draft I showed Thothie.
Alrighty, send it my way.

And...Its also about talent, I do not have the talent for mapping.
This is a terrible excuse that I see people making all the time. Talent factors at the end, not at the beginning. Talent is the difference between two people who spent 1,000 hours learning to map.
However, it is a complete myth (and a myth that needs to be shattered) that natural talent is required to be good at something. Being talented at mapping will make it easier. But being untalented does not mean you can't make a map that is really good. You simply have to work harder than those who were 'born with it'.
I was born with very little musical ability. Despite that, I am still a better musician than many people I know who are blatantly more talented than I am. Why? Because I out worked them. It's that simple.

In short, talent is the predisposition to skill, not the prerequisite to skill.

I know however sometimes you are just not cut up for something. I like writing stories, plots, and inventing worlds. I like to help create such worlds, but I lack the patience, and the skill to make all that myself. I am not a one man mod team.
I know basic modeling, texturing, very basic mapping, and even some scripting.

And again, please...Help me get that Elephant skinned or don't post here.
Post in the Gateway thread in the writings thread if you want to talk about my map series.
 

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TheOysterHippopotami said:
Right now, if we erase 99% of your lore, we are left with absolutely nothing

I lol'd when I saw this because you can say that about any lore... If you remove 99% of anything then you are left with practically nothing...

But yeah, you aren't going to be a proffessional mapper instantly... I have spent litterally over 200 hours on mapping now and I still suck... lol
 

TheOysterHippopotami

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I lol'd when I saw this because you can say that about any lore... If you remove 99% of anything then you are left with practically nothing...
That's not true. Use Beethovens 5th as an example once again. If you erase everything except the first four notes, you can rewrite the entire symphony from start to finish accurately. Because every note in the entire piece is derived from the first four notes in some way. There is a fundamental element that comprises it.

That's the point I was trying to make. Can you reduce a work to it's fundamental element(s)? If not, that means there is no fundamental element. It's just a bunch of stuff thrown together.
 

Gurluas

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TheOysterHippopotami said:
I lol'd when I saw this because you can say that about any lore... If you remove 99% of anything then you are left with practically nothing...
That's not true. Use Beethovens 5th as an example once again. If you erase everything except the first four notes, you can rewrite the entire symphony from start to finish accurately. Because every note in the entire piece is derived from the first four notes in some way. There is a fundamental element that comprises it.

That's the point I was trying to make. Can you reduce a work to it's fundamental element(s)? If not, that means there is no fundamental element. It's just a bunch of stuff thrown together.

You can actually strip it down alot, did you recieve my pm?
It should detail the basic plot. That plot can be stripped down to 3 lines.
 

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*sigh* In the time it took me to cut through all this crap, I think I lost all will to work on MSC today (if not my will to live)... Maybe tomorrow...
 

J-M v2.5.5

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Then here is a screenshot of the things Stoned said after Dorfgan fixed his ethereal dagger:
Stoned_ethereal.png

I hope this hilarious, overly typical Stoned situation motivates you :p
 

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You can actually strip it down alot, did you recieve my pm?
It should detail the basic plot. That plot can be stripped down to 3 lines.
I did not receive a PM.
 

Gurluas

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TheOysterHippopotami said:
You can actually strip it down alot, did you recieve my pm?
It should detail the basic plot. That plot can be stripped down to 3 lines.
I did not receive a PM.

Does not matter now.
 

Age

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(Moved from his thread in Writings, hoping more people will read and agree with me on this and that it might get through to him. The quote was about his story in Writings. Probably the only thing I will say to you, Gu.)

Here's a quote from my good buddy Snow Wolf.
Snow Wolf / RaZoR said:
It's ugly.
And honestly, that's being nice.

I don't know if you've realized this by now (Wait, I lied, you haven't.) You're not going to get approval from us until you give us a good, well written spoiler story. These little morphing tidbits are shit at best, honestly. You're also one of the densest people I have ever seen. I can't imagine what would happen if you got addicted to something serious, like murder, though with this shit, you might as well be. What with all this negative criticism, you've probably blocked most of it out because you don't like it, but Gu, the only- THE ONLY way anyone is going to accept this load of bollocks is if you step it up, give us some spoilers, show us something WORTHWHILE. Stop defending your work with "i dunt want spoil story u hav 2 see it urself" because honestly, this makes me think you have NOTHING. You're quite literally just morphing your story to our conversation. You're TRYING to appeal to the people with every post, but you've been failing miserably. Stop, please. We don't want you to defend your work with counter-flaming and argument lengthening bull shit. Give us what WE want, because you're supposed to be making this for US not you.

Words highlighted in large text indicate importance.

Us, we, the people, the community, the viewers, the critics, the players, the destroyers of egos, and the shapers of everything we want to see.
Sorry, had to throw that in so that you might realize what I'm getting at. Doubtfully though.

EDIT:
Also
TheOysterHippopotami said:
Lanethan seemed to have no problem leaking his entire plot to the internet.
If Lanethan had just given tidbit nit-picky BS and expected us to see the world ourselves, you probably wouldn't be here by now. I don't know much about the creation of MS, I was only around 8 when I started adventuring, but I'm sure a great fictional world has never been created by a team off of an "idea" the story writer did not share with his team. Don't use this as an excuse to only tell Thothie/MiB/whoeverthefu--elseyoudeemworthytoseeyourcreation, because like I said, words highlighted in large indicate importance. The boy who cried wolf ended up dead, by the way.
 

zeus9860

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Age said:
EDIT:
I was only around 8 when I started adventuring

Aw, how cute! :oldlol:
 

Gurluas

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Well fine...
Thoranduril was the Loreldian who discovered fate,he feels responsible and wants to restore Leann, to this end he created new mortal Loreldians. His mate Eryala was destroyed and corrupted but it managed to take control of a native species in the netherworld turning into Iposatu. Meanwhile Thoranduril took control of the Netherworld after the warring lost Loreldians had destroyed each other. He began to recreate Leann when Eryala including Elephants who were extinct, his old mate appeared and began to fight him. Eryala had been corrupted by the ages of madness and saw Thoranduril as the one responsible for all chaos in the world. Thoranduril is weakened and is concentrating his powers on preventing anymore from entering Leann. The players have to kill Eryala/Iposatu before it is too late. Once that is done Thoranduril will reward you and ask you to leave "New Leann"

Anyway it does not matter any more, i feel like the lore has changed too much from the original edition Lanethan made.
The vibe of being in a world threatened by higher powers is gone. And the lore on msremake is out of date...

Beside I kind of got a cease and desist by Thothie, so...
I am releasing what I have
 
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