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problems importing textures

Discussion in 'Skins/Textures' started by Phosphorcracker, Oct 7, 2016.

  1. Phosphorcracker

    Phosphorcracker New Member

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    So imma try my mad art skills and produce some retextures for lulz, but when i try to import the texture ( using khed) it says the pallete does not exist. Cant find anything that would let me create or change any palette.
     
  2. Phosphorcracker

    Phosphorcracker New Member

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    welp I found how to, and where to set pallettes in my drawing programm. thats ome weird shit yo. how the fuck can ppl work with that
     
  3. Thothie

    Thothie Administrator Staff Member

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    You'll need a 256 color (8-bit) palette, non-RLE compressed BMP...

    Generally, you do your drawing in 24-bit RGB format, then change the palette back to 256 perceptual. Gets tricky if you're working with a solid-rendered texture with transparent bits, as the transparent color must match the last color in the palette perfectly. Also make sure your program uses all 256 color entries in the palette, as missing palette entries tend to cause problems as well.

    If you can tell me which model you are trying to alter, I can provide you with the source textures. The reason for doing that being that the textures HLMV exports are not consistent with the source textures, due to the clipping done during the compiling process - which makes it hard to integrate the new textures so altered back into the original model source. (Often resulting in splitting and other artifacts.)
     
  4. Phosphorcracker

    Phosphorcracker New Member

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    i got my hands on a bludgeon right now, doesnt really matter to me where i start messing around. If you have a certain model you want in a different colour throw me that.
     
  5. Phosphorcracker

    Phosphorcracker New Member

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    so i just did this http://puu.sh/rBlF1/9c7cb40929.jpg, with a palette of 256 handpicked colours, when i paste it on the model i still fudges up like this http://puu.sh/rBm3a/8ebe7bc38e.jpg. What went wrong where ?

    NVM http://puu.sh/rBmeL/6d3a721faf.jpg, advanced options are helpfull

    FIRE BLUDGEON !!! http://puu.sh/rBoco/3685443c97.jpg not that we needed it but proof of concept for me

    Now open for recolour requests. Also some slight reworks might be in my artistic scope. I am a pleb compared to whoever made that venom bludgeon doe.

    Throw me that Bludgeon source texture, but the model viewer had no problems with the importet textures doe...
     
  6. Thothie

    Thothie Administrator Staff Member

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    Eh, it's no biggie, but you'll notice you probably lost the hair-transparency on the Bludgeon's mane, cuz I guess you didn't read my post regarding transparencies, a couple of posts above.

    http://www.thothie.com/msc_dev4/bludgeon_gaz.rar

    Model viewer will have no problem with it, but I can't recompile the source model with the texture to integrate it without issues, so it has to be a separate model, thus the mapper has to add another model to the precache to use it, which means Oyster will want to beat you. (Since he seems to enjoy pushing the media limit so much lately.)

    As for requests - I'm pretty damned fast with Photoshop, so, generally, if I need a retexture, it takes me less time to do it myself than to write up the request (the venom skin there being mine)... On the other hand, if you could come up with some reskin ideas for new creatures or weapons, with a detailed description of what you intend them to do, that would be more useful.
     
  7. Phosphorcracker

    Phosphorcracker New Member

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    i did read that, i didnt touch the last color whatsoever so i thought its gonna be fine. If it went overboard somehow i wouldnt know where or why.

    Hmm on a second thought i know where or why... I think I understand it now... the exported texture from the model viewer had the last color simple black, while the source texture has some blue there.

    Yep that was it http://puu.sh/rD92H/790cab962f.jpg, you could have told me that the parts that i want to be transparent need to be 0000ff, unless that changes from model to model ? your way of explaining that above was not clear to me. may have been another incompatibility with me and english xD.

    On your other point, yeah producing ideas might be more usefull than my meager skills xD.

    As i mentioned on my swords thread Id love to see a hightier sword (35), if it drops or is an craftable, meh both would be okay but id prefer it to be an craftable.

    Same model as blooddrinker but with a more demonic feel about it, give it some darker color, I guess we cant make animated textures ? Make it look like the blade is about to burst and shatter any moment with a dark red light breaking through pieces where its already damaged. Or take any other sword model you see fit.

    craft recipe: any amount of blooddrinkers ( dunno if there is a limit to 1 per player or not) dark tomas, some other stuff thats a pain to gather, you get the idea.
     
  8. Thothie

    Thothie Administrator Staff Member

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    Doesn't matter what color it is, blue is merely an arbitrary standard, it just has to be the last color in the palette. (If it's blue, and not the last color, it won't work.)

    Keep in mind, for map textures, it's the first color in the palette, oddly, rather than the last - 'case someone asks you for {solid a map texture.

    Maek eet. Though "35 sword like blood drinker but moar demonic" isn't really specific enough to do much of anything with from this end.

    Animated textures... Hrmmm... It *might* be doable, though it'd be screwy, only visible on the viewmodel without a lotta work, and could only be maybe a half-dozen frames max (only time I've attempted that was in msc/models/monsters/deadlyvine.mdl - and even that probably has too many frames for a weapon). Closest to animated textures on models we have otherwise is chrome textures.
     
  9. Phosphorcracker

    Phosphorcracker New Member

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    I had the feel i painted a good image with words welp, anyway I know I probably sound like the average retard with that sword but please take atleast 1 step in my direction xD, Ill get my art skillz ramped up and maybe come around with a concept soon. Imma even make a model if that helps

    Also i meant something like this http://puu.sh/rDojK/0ed71d986f.jpg WIP, you get the idea i wanted to immitate half frozen lava of sorts http://puu.sh/rDlCA/c989bc00f8.jpg sadly iam not such an artdemon as to properly bring it down xD. Also this http://puu.sh/rDkuy/ba2c7cd35b.png but oyster said we aint need no weapon models, and I dont know if I even can animate, so yeah.

    Feels kinda too red, I was thinking of a dark sword. could be acid with this effect in green.

    Let me try again:
    skill needed: 35, as we have alot of weapons with that cap
    model: maybe blooddrinker, or even a new model alltogether
    damagetype: Dark or acid, or whatever you see fit/needed in the current meta
    damage range: for a simple sword that wacks hard id point at 220-240 uncharged swing (firebreaker hits 240, wintercleaver 260, sword parry can be very usefull but so is bluntarms stun or wintercleavers slow) *numbers gained at hitting a rat
    attack speed: same as blooddrinker
    special ability: i dont know if there is one needed. I dont know if it would be too strong to keep the lifeleech.
    its gotta be a 2 handed sword.
     
  10. zeus9860

    zeus9860 The True Followers of the Lost

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    How about that greater hoarfrost/hoarfrost blade? :roll:

    Tbh the elements need to be used more often in high end gear, it's mostly fire/dark nowadays with some magical/non-elemental items in between. Poison/divination/lightning are the least used elements with cold/acid being a little bit better.

    How about a magical-type sword with cold element mixed with it and have the ability to switch between both types of damage. Or mixing lightning with poison or divination and dark (again).
     
  11. Lucifer Majiskus

    Lucifer Majiskus Sons of Babel

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    Why not Felewyn sword, instead of the unholy blade
     
  12. Phosphorcracker

    Phosphorcracker New Member

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    I have no objections to a strong(er) ice sword... thinking about zeus statements he is kinda right...
     
  13. Lucifer Majiskus

    Lucifer Majiskus Sons of Babel

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    Hoarfrost blade would be awesome too
     
  14. Thothie

    Thothie Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, the good news is, for weapons, you don't have to animate. A static mesh works fine - we just glue it into the related viewmodel, stick it on a bone, and walah, animated.

    I suppose an elemental switching sword, that switched between two elements when you right clicked, might be worthwhile idea - particularly if the stacking fixes we've added in the alpha hold up. Like the Felewyn blade, you'd lose the parry option in the process, but sacrificing defense for offense doesn't seem to bother folks much.

    Though I'd almost like to see better 1h weapons as, like ya said, I don't see the shields in use much. Was tempted to make shields more effective, but I'm afraid to play with the shield base after the last fiasco, as I'm still uncertain as to what was causing the problem.
     
  15. zeus9860

    zeus9860 The True Followers of the Lost

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    I'm tempted to make a few suggestions for new swords now, maybe later after work.

    Here's another one on the house that just came to my mind:

    Cursed Holy Blade (35+ swordsmanship, 30+ affliction, 30+ divination)

    -Normal slash/hit;
    -Charged stab/slash/hit;
    -Right click for block + strong repel (holy mode) or block + heavy duty dark aura that applies the "passive debuff" to all enemies next to you (making living enemies damageable by holy damage), each option costing around 50 mana;
    -Passive skill, sword automatically changes from dark to holy after doing 1 hit on a target and will remain in holy mode for 20-30 seconds, this passive makes holy damage bypass the "no damage" limitation on living targets.

    This was a fast idea that came to my mind all of a sudden, yesterday i had thought that the switching elements was a nice idea, if the weapon does the stuff itself it might not be a bad idea afterall. Right click to change element isn't bad either.

    Imagine the possibilities in this, mixing poison and lightning next, poison makes enemies receive extra damage from lightning sources for a while. Mixing cold and lightning to create a greater slowdown effect, and so on.
     
  16. Phosphorcracker

    Phosphorcracker New Member

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    thats probably due to the limited cases where parrying really is usefull. I havent played with a shield ever, I didnt play every map there is, but as of now I only know 1 mob that I parry to mitigate the insane damage. Iam talking about the torkalath sword mistress, they hit like a truck even through gpop and iceshield. And their attack animation is already slow and with a blunt stun + ice dot slow its slow enough to be worthwhile to skip 1 - 2 attacks to get that parry out.

    parry is too slow to handle to bother folks much. If parrying would be faster it might get too strong. I have noticed that you can almost instantly get your sword or lance up for a parry but it takes quite some time to switch to attack again.

    the conclusion: As is I feel parry is a powerfull tool for some rare exceptions and performs quite well in those but for the average fight it isnt worthwhile since the motion lock is too long making you vunerable to so many attacks that it comes out quit pro quo without alot of prework like a blunt stun or ice dot slow.

    Extra note: so if there would be more mobs that are designed to be parried that could change things. Also you can parry while stunned and take almost no damage during stun. Elemental dots hit through parry or block but I think thats intended.

    Further: This would make an Icesword or even Lightning Ice sword with a shitload of slow uncredibly strong if it could parry.

    Additional thoughts: Those dual elemental weapons might push the player power over the edge that even current endgame maps feel easy, maybe we need a step in the other direction, rather than buffing everything to the same level of power, nerf the weapons that noticeably overperform to a reasonable level. This too would widen the variety of viable weapons and would add to the fun. Balancing is a delicat matter and comes down to trial and error in the end.

    Additional thoughts to balancing: Oh dear lord fbrand and fireweapons, the idea of fbrand isnt completely wrong and in fact id love to see icebrand and lightningbrand for that matter, not only to have a convinient way to level those magic schools but to also enable further diversion. It comes down to a gameplay similar to dual elemental weapons. I fear only that an acid lance with a lightningbrand potion would skyrocket through the roof but on the other hand firebreaker+fbrand hits 500-1200 what is insane too. And the wintercleaver + icebrand also wouldnt have problems to hit that high. The only downside to that is that this would allow silly strong combinations of weapon types and elements so that we need either silly stronger maps or an overall inflation of mob hp, or an overall nerf of general damage dealt.
     
  17. zeus9860

    zeus9860 The True Followers of the Lost

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    Firebrand isn't even that big of a problem, considering that swiftblade exists and went from very rare to like common in very few patches. Potions like this should stay rare and only be made more common a few tiers later (eg: introduce a new rare potion on tier 40 cap and make it a more common drop at 50+ cap).

    Strong potions should have stayed rare, you would either get them from random luck from chests or create them from certain locations (alchemists). Example: Hawk feathers + some random ale + gold = lesser swiftblade potion

    Mixing elements isn't entirelly overpowered on its own, considering the fact that elemental weapons are mostly restricted to killing trash mobs since alot of high end bosses/enemies are immune/resistant to basic elemental damage. The game is unbalanced as it is, the introduction of said items will have little to no impact, given that the powerscaling curve is outright insane in the last 10 levels in the current cap, the next tiers will be even more insane, so the addition of said items by then seems about right.

    See it like this, from a percentage perspective:
    -tier 5 to 20, powerscale of enemies is properly adjusted to the player so let's assume 100% is the right option for these tiers;
    -tier 25 and tier 30, takes some more effort than the previous tiers, so let's assume the powerscaling is now somewhere around 150%;
    -tier 35, takes even more effort, powerscaling is now around 200%, potions are advised if you lack the proper gear or are within this tier atm;
    -tier 40, takes a crapton of effort, powerscaling is what i would consider at the very least a 300% (going all the way up to 500% with some maps), potions are a must, proper gear is a must, if you lack both of these you will either get carried or get punished hard. There are critters that make quick work of your greater shield and ice shields in the current endgame.

    If you take this into mind, adding strong new gear for the next tiers isn't really "OMG CRAZY OPNESS", the gear is probably properly balanced mostly, what isn't balanced is the potions and their rarity and certain mobs in this game.

    Question yourself this, is it really game breaking to have mixed elements knowing that the game is unbalanced to hell at this very moment with probably no possible fixing unless a character wipe happens, which of course would most likely kill the game completly in its current state. Should also consider the fact that what lies ahead is probably going to give you even more of a hardtime than the current stuff you have to play, knowing "this info", is it really "game breaking" to have mixed elemental weapons?

    Anyways, i'm pretty sure that these weapons would pale to the likes of other currently existing items, there seems to be a trend that elemental weapons do more damage than the ones that hit everything right now (eg: dark), i guess it's a little bit logical. Also, let's not forget that acid lance does exactly what i suggested with some of the mixed element effects, except, if i'm not mistaking, the extra damage will work for other players, not you. I could be wrong though.
     
  18. Phosphorcracker

    Phosphorcracker New Member

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    I didnt meant to say firebrand is broken or whatever but it is an enabler for certain things and kinda a must have.

    Adding stronger items and making people more powerfull in whatever way is not gamebreaking as it if its released with corresponding challenging content but it makes the "old" maps less of a challenge to the point where they are a breeze. I agree with you that certain maps have a lootpool for highlevel potions its like going to a walmart or something.

    So my concern was more like that new items and content is great but I dont want to end up like WoW where you have 200 nicely designed dungeons and only ever run the same 12 of them because they are all thats left to challenge your gear and provess ( dunno if i nailed that word too lazy to google). So I more or less just wanted to kick off a train of thought in something called horizontal expansion. Rather than extending the curve and upwards trends, give the players more options more freedom to do whatever they feel like.

    Leveling and feeling of progress keeps the player happy but there are quite some gems of games out there that manage to build a very satisfying gameplay experience over extended periods of time without pushing level caps and gear updates every now and then. Dragon Quest 9 for example, Monster Hunter series to name a few.

    Iam aware that new and harder content is close to being the only way to keep the few lasting players active.

    Also I dont think its a good idea to hide endgame content behind the neccessarity of certain potions as every potion can be gained by effort anyway. Be it by buying it from old helena or sorc villa friendly.

    And swiftblade can be combined with firebrand too just sayan

    Yes the game is kinda imbalanced/broken but still I see light at the end of the tunnel to get to a point where its slightly less broken step by step by thinking things through before just throwing anything ingame. Thats true for any suggestions be it mine or yours or from whomever.

    Also there are a fair deal of bosses and minibosses with a certain elemental type that just get rekt by elemental weapons, Shendereast icebirdy gets demolished by dwarvenbolts + fbrand, iam pretty sure the fire giant takes more damage from ice but everybody always just mashes away with dbh so i never tried it could be wrong, orc for firedjinn, i think the troll mama in underpath gets alot of damage from dark cant remember clearly doe. And I am sure a closer look would expand the list vastly.

    Mixing elements is indeed not the root of all evil but it has the potential to become part of it. I didnt say it would be op gamebreaking but I can imagine quite a few situations where its really helpfull and/or strong. And certain combinations have the power to become VERY powerfull. An Icesword that hits like a truck with the ability to parry could turn anybody into a silly tanky 1 man army in 1v1 situations like bossfights, minibosses, very powerfull single mobs.

    On the other hand is the question is it the right way to justify something by the assumption of content thats gonna be even more challenging no matter what ?

    Anyway I dont want to break a discussion off the fence I am sure I am gonna loose.

    PS its possible to profit from your own LOA dot damage enhance if you bother to switch weapons every 2 or 3 hits.
     
  19. Thothie

    Thothie Administrator Staff Member

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    I think Sword Art Online covered this best - but SAO:Abridged covered it funnier, so:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH5qZgjDBSY

    Basically, in MMO's, the idea is that lower level content gets easier as you advance (basically leaving you a god at some point), while current and higher level content, forces you to use all the mechanics and items you've earned and learned up to that point, just to stay alive, punctuated by the occasional desperate battle come the boss fight or epic swarm.

    Now, ideally, that'd be a nice, smooth, even ramp, but well... Fugging MSC ain't got no levels, so lots of fugging luck!

    *sigh* Well, it's not as if certain MMO's I won't name, that do have levels, don't have a difficulty ramp that looks like an inverse of a stock chart from Black Friday, or, conversely, Dan Quayle's EKG chart anyways... But yeah, the better ones do increment it smoothly.

    It also doesn't help that certain mappers, who I also won't name, tend to make maps so difficult I can barely run through them with my level 45 test character with cheats enabled, and dish out plasma-powered rainbow elemental DPS to such a degree that I have to dish out more potions, as they refuse to tone them down when I gripe about it.

    So yeah, tougher maps, more and tougher equipment - the cycle continues. ...And although the resulting difficulty progression ramp is far from even, at least it only goes up (for the most part). Though, sadly, part of the reason for that is that our patches are so few and far between lately.

    But I prefer to stick to boosts on both ends, when it comes to balance attempts. Despite my maligned reputation, I don't like to nerf things if I can avoid it, particularly if it's distantly retroactive (it's one thing to nerf some OP thing you just mistakenly released - quite another to nerf something you released years ago).

    Meh, IDK if I can rig it up so you can return to attacking more quickly - not sure if that's handled on the animation side or the attack registry side, would have to fiddle and find out.

    Preventing DOT's from applying while blocking with the shield is something I've been fiddling with - though, back when I made the shield block stun/push was about the time I horribly broke the shields in some horrible and mysterious way. I suppose it'd be less apt to be a problem if I did it from the DOT effect end.

    I'd like to have more mobs that are dodge/block dependant, but I have to be careful about introducing them too quickly, otherwise people will complain about suddenly getting smashed when they haven't been educated as to the value of block and dodge by previous mobs. I do want to work up some sort of generic telegraphed attack system - such as the red circles of death you see in various MMOs, or the flashy charging glowing fist of impending doom effect (which, sadly, requires new animations).

    I've got more new monster models than I can deal with at the moment, but scripting up mobs, particularly those with new and unique effects, eats quite a bit of time. Nonetheless, it'll happen, eventually (and there's lots in the pipe).

    But yeah, back to topic: come up with idea, make model or skin to go with, post sauce (or request sauce).
     
  20. zeus9860

    zeus9860 The True Followers of the Lost

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    Meh, i wasn't including parrying in these items for a reason, basically sacrifice the ability to parry hits with right click and do something else instead, felewyn shard has two modes and a divine block ability, so i thought this could be the thing that swords could use. Unless you are speaking about the auto parry in 2h swords.

    I never use parry in swords, i never saw the need to, it is as useless as the pushback features in polearms. There might be very few scenarios it could be usefull, but said scenarios are probably better played by avoiding the enemy and playing with a strategy that doesn't involve you taking heavy hits constantly.

    Anyways, pre-dual wielding fix, using 1 handed items and shields were a thing, since the dual wield fix, people discarded their shields for more dps. I used neckhunter and runeshield quite alot back when the_wall was still insanely hard. Speaking of which, that was the last map that i felt was somewhat challenging and not entirelly frustrating to play, you could even use the map layout to your advantage, like lure elves into a tight spot and kill them 1 by 1 rather than 3 vs 1. Some people disagree on that, but comparing the_wall with most of the recent maps, the recent maps easily take the spot as the frustrating ones on the list.

    So yeah, gonna stop derailing your thread now.
     
  21. Phosphorcracker

    Phosphorcracker New Member

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    who gives a shit about derailing a thread here anyway xD, its not like a million ppl are active here and get upset missing on some rad discussion under the wrong topic.

    My efforts shifted to making a worthy successor for the hoarfrost shard.

    Also why the fuck did i start that thing off in this http://puu.sh/rFseR/0dafd902d6.png fucking angle, it makes it a pain to work on the handle... god praise the rotate feature.

    ohhh boy, does anyone have a good tutorial or tipps and tricks to UV mapping ? Okay after some trial and error i got my head around how to do that http://puu.sh/rFDZF/08ffe18601.png . Its now only fault to my missing art skills xD... iam too much of a pleb to get a wood optic http://puu.sh/rFGgk/1554607f96.jpg ...

    slowly getting the hang of things http://puu.sh/rFVNU/4bc72abee8.jpg, i like it so far. any thoughts or critique ?

    inb4 a skilled artsman can do better in less time, atleast give me an E for effort xD

    Meh, my art style lives from unsharpness iam sure Thothie could come around with something better in like 5min xD

    Id like to give it more of a crystaline feel but i dont know how to make half seethrough materials, or if thats even possible.

    Taking a look at the general artwork, my design might be to simple? I mean theres nothing really extraordinary with the model itself, swords in msc tend to ahve some sort of overkill paring thingies.

    This model could possibly be used as onehand weapon too.

    PS talking about parrying again, i noticed if you just hold down rightclick and charge your hits the sword blocks alot outside of the attack animations, feels kinda buggy. https://streamable.com/jnc4 took a century to upload, should have scaled down more...
     

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