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Master Sword: Continued state of affairs. An essay about how we need a patch.

Discussion in 'MS:Continued Discussions' started by Kanta, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. Kanta

    Kanta Adventurer

    209
    18
    Jan 24, 2013
    Level 45 Zauberei Basher
    ms_swamp
    Greetings Master Sword forum goes, this is Mazzma. You may know me as Kanta in-game, or maybe Sir Galano from years ago. I have something pretty serious to discuss today. But before we get into the grit I'd like to address anyone who has ever developed/worked on or created content for MS:C. Thank you, this game is fantastically unique and by far one of the most amazingly unique experiences I've come across in Half-Life modding. It's fun, I love it, we the community love it. You've created something awesome and it is really something that I personally want to see continue to be the best that it can be.

    Unfortunately, the game is stuck in a pretty bad rut at the moment. What's keeping the game alive at the moment is the older players. People who have been with MS:C for years and have grown accustomed to it's quirks. This can't be said the same for new players. To a new player (we've all been there) Master Sword can be pretty overwhelming in terms of learning different mechanics/how the progression works in the game but now a days bugs and crashes are making this game even harder for people to get into. The game crashes, a lot. Now I know what you're thinking, "Of course it does, Master Sword has always crashed you fool." No, this game crashes even more now. MS:C has started to crashed more in the past 2 years of my playing than the entire ~8 or 9+ years I've been with it. A large majority of these crashes are server related when you just want to change the level. It is resoundingly infuriating to wait 10+ minutes for a level change, and most of the time choosing another server to change level will more often than not result in a crash too. Disconnecting before the server changes level works sometimes, but not everyone knows this (Mostly new players). Foohy, Cold Finger, Eboldus, Freekill, and King Geemayn, these are 5 new players that I personally played with for the month or so as they tried to deal with MS:C. They had fun and enjoyed themselves quite a bit from what I saw, when they could actually change levels and reload maps... Constant crashes are not something you can always expect a new player to just come to accept. In short, people LIKE the game, but not being able to play for more than two maps at the most is something that is turning players away from the game. I no longer see the players I listed in-game.

    As for bugs... I can recount two times that I have joined a game with new players and noticed that they chose the dwarf player race (Players who are dwarves can be differentiated from humans by their nametag lacking any kind of Friendly/Wary/Deadly tag.) I cannot recall seeing this players ever again after I told them about the race being broken and that they should remake their characters. This bug seems to be the most harmful to new players at the moment but there are countless others as everyone is aware (healing/support damage points, crescent/bb block, cleicert, npc shops, I could go on), some of which are marked as fixed in next release. Those bugs have been marked as fixed for ages, which begs the question... Why can't we actually have them?

    New content is always nice but it's not what MS:C needs at the moment. Fixes need to take priority over new content at the time being. Whatever it is you have that is fixed at the moment, please give it to us, we want them. The game needs them. So whatever it is, if it works, release it. I understand that the people behind this game are only human but anything is better than this agonizingly long wait and we (at least, myself) are ready to give feedback and help squash these problems. Thank you for reading.
     
  2. prodigalist

    prodigalist New Adventurer

    20
    0
    Jan 4, 2010
    Male
    California
    I really REALLY wish for this more than anything else.
    I tried inviting as many of my friends as I could to MSC because it genuinely is a ton of fun and I want it to grow, I invited around 7 people (all the ones listed in OP and more) and mostly all of them have just stopped playing because it crashed CONSTANTLY when they just wanted to play some maps and progress further.
    I have tried multiple times to do maps with them and waiting for servers to come back up and just having random crashes removes any fun they were having.
    It's upsetting to me because I really do care about the future of MSC and being in such a poor buggy state leaves it extremely deterring and is drastically reducing my will to even play it at all.
    From what I have heard from others most of these bugs are already fixed in alpha builds but are being held back, this is really just damaging the playerbase in an extremely bad way and halting any growth.
    I'd rather wait for content and have a fixed and playable version of the game than wait for all of it.
     
  3. FreeKill

    FreeKill New Adventurer

    1
    0
    Sep 28, 2017
    While new content is always nice, I do think bug fixes should be a bit more of a priority if only for the reason of making sure that new players aren't put off by some of the more troubling bugs, such as server crashes after map changes, as well as some violent memory leaks that completely rob you of framerate until you restart your game.

    I understand that you guys are working on new content, but please, bug fixing should really come first.

    Edit: A specific bug is that one where enemies are invisible until you die. Kind of forgot that one until it happened 5 minutes ago.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  4. Kanta

    Kanta Adventurer

    209
    18
    Jan 24, 2013
    Level 45 Zauberei Basher
    ms_swamp
    Oh.. Another thing that really confuses people is bloom. Should be off by default and the bloom key not bound by default as well. Kthx. <3
     
  5. Father Brandon

    Father Brandon Adventurer Developer

    161
    16
    Aug 26, 2004
    Mapper
    Frosty North
    I agree with what has been said. I think Bloom and Dwarf need to go ASAP as they are the first issues any new player will encounter.
     
  6. Lucifer Majiskus

    Lucifer Majiskus New Adventurer Sons of Babel

    I agree with above. Hotfix please?
     
  7. MS:C community

    MS:C community Adventurer

    364
    23
    Jul 7, 2011
    I'd like to add to this thread that bloom should've been un-defaulted yeaaaars ago.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  8. Truewarrior

    Truewarrior New Adventurer Developer Blades of Urdual

    122
    4
    Jan 5, 2006
    Father Brandon likes this.
  9. Kanta

    Kanta Adventurer

    209
    18
    Jan 24, 2013
    Level 45 Zauberei Basher
    ms_swamp
    If this is just a config that unbinds the bloom key and turns it off by default, everyone and their dog has already done this. It needs to be removed/off by default with the mod for NEW players.
     
    Father Brandon and greatguys1 like this.
  10. Gurluas

    Gurluas New Adventurer

    1,777
    0
    Aug 28, 2004
    Dwarves should be fixed though, not removed. Dwarves are cute!
     
  11. Kanta

    Kanta Adventurer

    209
    18
    Jan 24, 2013
    Level 45 Zauberei Basher
    ms_swamp

    Cute, huh..?

    The model lacks animations needed for a lot of actions as well as blend animations not to mention a female gender, something the NPC dwarves don't even have, plus compared to the human the model is pretty ugly.
     
  12. greatguys1

    greatguys1 Adventurer Developer Warriors of the North

    180
    11
    Apr 20, 2013
    Yes
    Eh, removing 'em is a reasonable solution until they can/will be fixed.
     
  13. Solokiller

    Solokiller New Adventurer Developer

    36
    2
    Dec 19, 2016
    I just sent some crash fixes to Thothie (along with some other stuff i can't disclose atm), work is getting done. If you know of any crashes that can be reliably reproduced, let me know.
     
  14. Lucifer Majiskus

    Lucifer Majiskus New Adventurer Sons of Babel

    :D
     
  15. Truewarrior

    Truewarrior New Adventurer Developer Blades of Urdual

    122
    4
    Jan 5, 2006
    Well did you expect something else XD
     
  16. Kanta

    Kanta Adventurer

    209
    18
    Jan 24, 2013
    Level 45 Zauberei Basher
    ms_swamp
    Sorry if I seemed kinda rude but the whole idea of the thread was about new players.
     
  17. Phosphorcracker

    Phosphorcracker New Adventurer

    72
    0
    Nov 30, 2012
    looking for Occupation...
    Glorious Germany
    The server taking ages to restart on crash is not 100% msc's fault. Last time I checked servers were configured to wait a couple of mins till restart and the server host could set this to close to nothing ? I am sure this being default once used to prevent something terrible from happening. Do we still need this ?
     
  18. Thothie

    Thothie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator Developer

    14,911
    26
    Apr 8, 2005
    psycho-oligist
    lost
    Shoulda fixed it straight after the patch, but we ran into new fundamental problems straight after NOV2015. These have been resolved, but we're beyond "hotfix" patches. Next patch will likely be pretty big - though, I suppose I could put up a relatively content-free patch, and save the actual new content for the next one. There's been a lot of fundamental changes though, and I am worried we'd be, "Fixing old bugs and creating new, more interesting ones", more so than usual.

    Boom defaulting to off requires a new full installer, rather than a hotfix, as patches do not overwrite configs. New full installer is the intent anyways. Considering new engine as well, though that would be "new, more interesting bugs" turbo-mode, and we've not had much testing under the new engine (involves ~4GB of transfers, which doesn't help).

    Dehoth was kind enough to cook us up a nice map that's compatible with the current patch, and I had intended to have that out as something for folks chew on meantime, but alas, I had more unexpected downtime, or I woulda had that up by now.

    I've got so much stuff set aside for a Halloween event, piled up over years now - dunno how this happens every darn year. :mad:

    In the case of the map change countdown it is MSC's fault, and it's preventative. In the case of server crash, should it generate a pop-up, or otherwise not simply CTD, it can take various restarters quite some time to realize the server is dead and restart it. Actually did remove some pop-ups to cut down on this and made some fatal crashes non-fatal, but that may also lead to "new, more interesting bugs".
     
  19. darkdain

    darkdain New Adventurer

    19
    0
    Jan 3, 2006
    So i havnt played MS:C in years, i've always just played solo and have played it off and on since the start. BUT NOW IT HAS DWARFS? hoooly shit i am so into Dwarfs, i literally named my character "dwarf" when making my guy this time and was so confused when it said "pick your race" and Dwarf was there. But the race is currently bugged and will create problems? Or has that been resolved? My hype for this game has never been higher as a Dwarf
     
  20. Lucifer Majiskus

    Lucifer Majiskus New Adventurer Sons of Babel

    DO not make a dwarf char, as it is bugged. You will not be visible to players or enemies (I think)
     
  21. darkdain

    darkdain New Adventurer

    19
    0
    Jan 3, 2006
    Tragic :( I remember when the Dwarfs were added as npcs, never thought they'd be a playable race (even if its just cosmetic) but now i guess i have something to look forward to and shall level a boring human in the mean time
     
  22. Kanta

    Kanta Adventurer

    209
    18
    Jan 24, 2013
    Level 45 Zauberei Basher
    ms_swamp
    Dwarf characters do not pull aggro of enemies, cannot do quests, and will never be able to get any good loot because they do not accumulate damage points at all.
     

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