Character Reset?

[HomestarR]

XP exploits, ever think of that?

 

[imkongkong]

such as?

 

[HomestarR]

The "Sit in a healing pool while rats attack to raise parry" would be such an exploit

Also, people were killing Keledros way too easily, and I am sure that netted a bunch of xp.

 

[imkongkong]

The "Sit in a healing pool while rats attack to raise parry" would be such an exploit

never heard of that one before anyways.. you have to think overall about that one event

1. how many people did that exploit
2. how long they did that exploit
3. how much did their parry raise
4. how jurastic it would affect gameplay
5. how 'unbalanced' it would make the game

now my own intuitions about these questions that have to be answered

1. not very many
2. couldnt have been that long
3. dont think it raised it jurastically
4. don't think an enemy would MISS with every swing
5. don't think it would affect attack power, speed, other stats, etc, except parry but can't be for sure. would it give a big advantage? a very slight advantage.. my own personal experience, my parry is around 25 fighting in sfor a lot against those skeletons.. even at that much, i rarely get PARRY PARRY, most of the time their attacks land

now you can't say that that since some person did this exploit it would affect and totally unbalance gameplay. reseting stats based SOLELY on this one event would be totally unecessary. once again with my example

it's like saying my car's stereo was stolen! i might as well buy a new car because it's missing its stereo

instead of just fixing the problem of the stereo, you're replacing the entire thing

EDIT: saw this also

Also, people were killing Keledros way too easily, and I am sure that netted a bunch of xp.

i barely see this as an exploit, rather, it is how gameplay was set up. what you said is TOTALLY irrelevant to exploits. If gameplay was setup intentionally at a set HP for Keledros to be "easy" (notice in quotation marks) to kill, it is not considered an exploit.

now if the team wanted to raise their experience that's tweaking instead.

so on the basis of this argument, it is irrelevant to exploits

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Everybody can use this exploit and run around with high-skill characters. It's not fair against other people.

Maybe one or two funny guys 'discovered' this exploit (don't remember who originally posted it here) but now everybody can do it.

There is a solution for this one however (which I already posted elsewhere): Whoever updates Edana, place a func_monsterclip in the door opening to the pool so any monsters are blocked.

Anyway, the Keledros exploit is still working. I just played v1.01dev_g (latest sc.dll and ms.dll and the whole 101-testing thing) with a few others and it happened I was the first one to walk into the room. He killed me, and when I came back to hit him again (I figured he was attacking everybody) I noticed the others had cornered him without being attacked.

Keledros gives XP (and extremely rare items, but we're talking about XP) so that's yet another exploit.

Then you also have the Timidus Textor that can't hit you (not sure if they fixed this yet) so you can get easy XP, then you have the scythe that has an enourmous range so you can kill enemies without being harmed, also gaining XP.

I think there are quite some exploits which give you (alot) XP and I'm certain more than 'a few' people used them.

And if people (like me) can reach 300+ HP in ten days, then I'm sure I can also do that in v1.01 with a new character.

P.S.: I think you mean 'drastic' and not 'jurastic'.

Edit: In reply to your edit, I am absolutely sure the "Keledros-attacks-only-his-initial-attacker" thing is a downright bug. But to be even more sure than absolutely sure, let's just ask the devs.

Developers: Is Keledros supposed to be able to attack only one person so the rest can corner him for an easy kill?

 

[HomestarR]

The keledros exploit was that he was unable to fight back, not because of an "intended" hp problem or whatever you play it off as.

Parry influences how much mana you have as well as your chance to parry, and you can have 30 parry from leaving it on overnight and have 200+ mana.


****edit****

Hehe J-M, you explained it better than I could have.

 

[Wolfhound]

Lol, I was wondering what jurastic was. And yes, there are quite a few exploits you can do to gain xp. How about some of the walking ashes spawning in the ceiling in thornlands? They can't attack you, but you can attack them. Then, once they die, they get back up. Sometimes five or six times. They give a decent amount of xp, times five or six, times the number of ashes in the ceiling. Goblin guards do an attack animation, but do not actually attack you. Also easy xp. There are plenty of things people can do to get xp without working for it. Clean reset of EVERY part of the characters is the best way to go, but only after all these exploits are eliminated.

 

[imkongkong]

Everybody can use this exploit and run around with high-skill characters. It's not fair against other people.

what do you consider "high-skill" characters? high parry? and how great an affect would it be? and of course it wouldnt be fair if someone has been leveling a character up and someone who is new to the game joins

Anyway, the Keledros exploit is still working. I just played v1.01dev_g with a few others and it happened I was the first one to walk into the room. He killed me, and when I came back to hit him again (I figured he was attacking everybody) I noticed the others had cornered him without being attacked.

Keledros gives XP (and extremely rare items, but we're talking about XP) so that's yet another exploit.

keledros gives xp? doesn't every enemy give experience?

Then you also have the Timidus Textor that can't hit you (not sure if they fixed this yet) so you can get easy XP, then you have the scythe that has an enourmous range so you can kill enemies without being harmed, also gaining XP.

yes the timidus textor doesn't move, but i have received damage from it, so that would be an exploit. the scythe does have long range, but i dont see any difference with a bow and arrow since it also has range

I think there are quite some exploits which give you (alot) XP and I'm certain more than 'a few' people used them.

just speculation, no evidence presented to show that there are exploits.. we can't base judgement on speculation alone, as it may or may not be there

And if people (like me) can reach 300+ HP in ten days, then I'm sure I can also do that in v1.01 with a new character.

i didnt say someone couldnt reach 300+ hp in a short while, but this is irrelevant to what we're discussing

P.S.: I think you mean 'drastic' and not 'jurastic'.

yea i always mix it up when im typing fast >_>

Edit: In reply to your edit, I am absolutely sure the "Keledros-attacks-only-his-initial-attacker" thing is a downright bug. But to be even more sure than absolutely sure, let's just ask the devs.

Developers: Is Keledros supposed to be able to attack only one person so the rest can corner him for an easy kill?

it's that way with every enemy i've fought. they usually only attack one person, while the others can gang up and attack, so i don't see it as an exploit since it works with every enemy

[/b]

 

[Kuroneko]

it's that way with every enemy i've fought. they usually only attack one person, while the others can gang up and attack, so i don't see it as an exploit since it works with every enemy

I almost fell out of my seat reading that.

 

[imkongkong]

think about it, 4 people cornering one guy.. every attack that guy does should reach all four at the same time? if he has one axe, of course he'll only able to do damage to one character at a time

 

[Wolfhound]

Actually, most enemies attack one person, then if that person leaves, they attack someone else that is attacking them. However with keledros, he attacks one person, then if that person leaves the room, keledros just sits there while everyone else in the server beats the shit out of him. That is why it is an exploit, and no it doesn't work with every enemy.

I've walked right up in timidus textors face and knifed him to death while receiving 0 damage. And the fact that the scythe, and axe weapon, has the kind of range that should be reserved for the bow and arrow (which does less damage as an offset to it's range) is an exploit as well. If you can't see that, well...

If you don't see those as exploits, I'm sure glad you're not helping to develop any games. Your games would be awful.

He was just using the fact that he's hit 300 hp in a short time to show that a reset wouldn't be that huge a deal.

 

[imkongkong]

Actually, most enemies attack one person, then if that person leaves, they attack someone else that is attacking them. However with keledros, he attacks one person, then if that person leaves the room, keledros just sits there while everyone else in the server beats the **** out of him. That is why it is an exploit, and no it doesn't work with every enemy.

now you explained it a bit more in detail, instead of what they explained, so it makes sense

I've walked right up in timidus textors face and knifed him to death while receiving 0 damage. And the fact that the scythe, and axe weapon, has the kind of range that should be reserved for the bow and arrow (which does less damage as an offset to it's range) is an exploit as well. If you can't see that, well...

i received damaged from the timidus textor

If you don't see those as exploits, I'm sure glad you're not helping to develop any games. Your games would be awful.

lots of fallacies with you statement here. based on my argument, saying my games would be awful is a fallacy. thus you, my friend, think about what im saying instead of judging me

He was just using the fact that he's hit 300 hp in a short time to show that a reset wouldn't be that huge a deal.

but what im saying is that people but hours on end to achieve that. course its "easy" but takes hours and hours in front of the computer

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

I am getting the impression you don't have a ****ing clue what the hell you're talking about (I just can't say it any other way). Your arguements are too retarded for words, so we'll just go through this again.

You do not want to lose your XP because you claim there haven't been any serious XP exploits. You think it's OK to lose your items because you say there have been some serious item exploits.

Newsflash: There are some really serious XP exploits too, and somehow you think you can talk all of these exploits into something the 'developers intended'.

Here we go:

ONE

what do you consider "high-skill" characters? high parry? and how great an affect would it be? and of course it wouldnt be fair if someone has been leveling a character up and someone who is new to the game joins

'High-skill characters' is a relative term. You must compare characters with each other. If somebody runs around with a level 29 character because he has 40 parry (yes, I've seen somebody in game with this) and all the others are around level 20, then that's a 'high-level character'. This parry can be obtained illegally, through the abovementioned "Rats-in-Healing-Pool" exploit.

People with high parry have more chance of beating an enemy and thus more chance of surviving, and thus can they kill more enemies, leaving less for lower-level players.

And the arguement about 'new players joining'... well I can't even call that an arguement. Everytime a new person starts playing MS: C we should do what? Have a complete char reset? Are you on crack?

TWO

Keledros gives easy XP, yet you refuse to understand that. And no, he's not like every other monster in the game. Take a monster, a random monster. Walk up to the monster with four guys. One person will be targeted. However, if he runs away, the skeleton will attack the next closest person. Why? All players are targets to ordinary monsters.

Keledros is bugged, he attacks only his initial attacker, allowing others to corner him, waste him, and get butt loads of easy XP.

I seriously hope you understand that, else something's wrong with you.

THREE

Bows and magic (long-range weapons) do less damage than axes, scythes, swords, whatever (short-range weapons) for a reason. You can use long-range weapons to stay out of harms way, so you can have an easier time killing enemies. To compensate for this you deal less damage.

The scythes are bugged and have a too high range. Meaning you can attack enemies from afar with alot of damage (compared to normal long-range weapons). This isn't how the scythe is supposed to work (ask the developers).

And you also say it would be 'an exploit if the Timidus Textor' hits you. It's a glitch that he can NOT hit you, and making use of that is exploiting so you can gain EASY XP.

FOUR

I can write a whole god damn guide on exploits in this game if that's what it takes to convince you.

FIVE

HP is based on skill, skill is based on XP. Easy XP gives easy skill, thus gives easy HP, which translates to 'alot of' HP. You don't want to lose XP, yet you say HP is not relevant to the discussion about XP? It sure as hell is.

SIX - THE CONCLUSION

There are not just a few, but quite some XP exploits in this game. Some of them can be easily used, others not.

The bottom line is: there are people out there getting easy XP and you talk alot of bull ****.

 

[HomestarR]

*applause*


Seriously though, if you would only do a bit more reading around here, you would see all of these have been discussed to death allready.

 

[Wolfhound]

I'm saying your games would be awful because you view things that are exploits as not exploits, therefore not needing to be fixed. Your games would have a lot of exploits in them, thus would be awful. Where did you get lost in that logic storm?

And the health point thing, his point was it took about a week and a half to gain the hp, so losing it means you can gain it back in a week and a half. As far as online rpgs go, a week and a half is not much time for developing a character. So not much is lost there. At least that's how I understood it. He could also be saying that that was too short a time to gain that xp, because of the exploits that can be used. So it's only fair to reset them. Either way it is relevant to the character resetting discussion.

 

[lssj8]

yes i only want the items to be reset not the skillz

 

[Etnies]

I say don't reset them. People are going to find ways to exploit any game even if it is the full fixed version, and most of them aren't going to get caught.

I'm saying this because I'm one of the people who didn't exploit the Helena thing in the beginning, but my character got wiped anyways. It sucks really bad to see all that time go wasted.

Sure I can just "do it again" but I won't have any desire to if my character is wiped again for some bullcrap like this. I didn't do anything to deserve to have my character deleted, and I'm sure there are others out there who are clean as well.

I also did most of my leveling on my winter break and long weekend that I had, and I won't have time to build up my character again to where I can play with other people and actually enjoy it. Trying to play your 5 or 13 HP character in a server full of people who want to go to Daragoth flatout sucks, and there nothing more to argue about that.

So again let me say, no.

 

[Wolfhound]

I know what you mean. Classes start back up on the 17th and after that I won't be able to play enough to build my character to where it is now. However, even though I didn't use exploits to build up my character, it sucks to have someone have a more powerful character that they didn't earn really. That's why I say reset them, but only after the glaring exploits are fixed. Keep doing beta versions, once the exploits are greatly minimized, char wipe.

 

[CodeMan]

Bleh

Alright, my response to this is no. Dont reset.
Whatever you do people will always be able to hack characters when it comes to client side.(Well, you could make it extremely difficult, yet never impossible.)
When it comes to server side networks, they can decide to reset chars if they want to, they dont have to. New server side networks will likely have all new chars anyway. Thus, why make it a game wide reset? I dont see a compelling reason.

 

[Wolfhound]

Playing ms on a client-side server is like playing counterstrike on a vac-less server.

 

[Lanethan]

My vote is on yes, simply because I'm almost positive it's going to happen anyway, considering that we've made some changes to the player data structure. I'd suggest we release a character converter but that always seems to open the character file format up for any hackers... the vote's close, so keep voting community! It IS, after all, up to you guys how we do this.

 

[Anaxis]

Ehehe

Bah, I shouldn't have voted no so soon. After reading through all the posts, I wish I could redo my vote and say yes. I don't think it'd be that bad of an idea to do a character reset at all actually. If it's to better the game then I'm all for it really. I'll admit, I'll be a little disappointed at first...losing my precious baby, but at least I'll know what to do for next time. By the way, my guy has 359 HP, 120 mana, and all of his skills save for two, above 15. You don't see me complainin', and believe me it won't be all that bad.

 

[Father Brandon]

Economy and players need to be reset.

 

[Raptor]

i say yes, all server-side (are there even any servers that do this?), all FN and all client chars - i got a perfect hugger FIRST TRY from the chest in thornlands, as well as a perfect skullblade, also FIRST time in daragoth, sure daragoth was harder to get to, but basically you just have to be able to kill 2 spiders and survive running past all the orcs - not hard to do...

plus those that have like 50k gold from the helena exploit (even if it didn't last long and not many people did it)... and there are those that refuse to update sc.dll for the sole purpose of getting things easier than they should be gotten, and though it took me a while to get where i'm at, i wouldn't mind a reset and having to do most of it over again

 

[AmIAnnoyingNow]

I would say reset characters on almost every major balance and bug update until the mod is officially "released" (Not many would agree with me, but i would say it )

As beta testers (Im assuming this is a beta), people should not be so reluctant to have their character reset. So what if you've spent 1 week building your character, think about how much time the developers spent on this. By downloading and playing the beta and hopefully informing them of problems, your saving them a lot of time that would be spent searching for these balence issues, bugs, and exploits. (Look at the support forums, all that in less than 2 weeks). That why the beta test is used, besides giving devs the right to brag: "Look! I made a cool mod!" (All developers deserve this right )

Also, if you think rebuilding your character is boring, thats an issue that should be dealt with too. A character reset would be a great time to point out areas of the game that are especially dull or need improvement, as the initial "OMG WHATS THAT!!!!" phase has passed, and you can evaluate this factor better. And considering balence changes have been made, you'd be able to compare it to the previous system (Suggesting/whining where necessary). Like I'd think itd be interesting if commoners suddenly started greeting you as they walked by, maybe even commenting on your level.

Also, people tend to find more exploits and bugs if their looking for shortcuts .

Maybe this character reset wouldn't look as disasterous if some new low level quests were added to edana, sewers, and thornlands. This would give people a reason to start over and something to do while their training.

I was wondering if you could elaborate a general timeframe for this new patch: days? weeks? months? years? half-life 3 1st delay? half-life 3 2nd delay? half-life 3 after getting hacked? apocalypse? half-life 3 actual release?