Musing upon weapon dynamics.

lvb2555

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Just have a few things I'd like to address, as well as a question or two.

Recently I decided to compare efficiency for damage between axes, and while that's not the point of this post, it led me to make a few observations. Right now I have pretty much 4 choices, until I get new gear, for leveling axes.

We have dwarven axe, which I believe is one handed, envenomed battle axe, regular thunder axe, and great axe.

My first question is about the thunder axe. Does it have a single charge attack? I can leap attack with it, I can throw it, but I cannot charge hit with it at prof 24. If it does, at what level? And why would I be able to leap and such before I can charge, it seems rather counter-intuitive. If it doesn't, why not?

Fiddling around with throwing it, I found that it has the same problem with the lightning DoT as Thunderstorm used to back in the day. (The one where enemies that were hit with the actual spell didn't take any damage until the 2nd cycle, which had to be circumvented by aiming at the floor, if I remember correctly) Direct 'hit' on the throw scan results in throw axe damage and lightning aura - but no lightning DoT though any enemies not directly hit, but hit as collateral damage on the way forward or back, WILL take throw damage and lightning DoT. If this is a valid bug report I'll submit it, but I'd like to verify it first through corroboration.

Now a slight discrepancy with dynamics.
I'll try and weigh pros and cons to the best of my ability, this is basically a comparison of polearms vs other weapons, and for now I'll stick to axes, for I've been able to use them both at the same power level for a time now.

Test subject: Bears
Thunderaxe - Non-Charge Min Dmg: 10 Max Dmg: 90 - Approximate DoT on regular strike: 1 in 15 (Maybe I just got unlucky) Chance to hit 74% at level 24, it fits with the theme of lightning having erratic damage, but I can't help but feel a higher minimum damage is necessary.

Test Subject: Timidus Textor - Great Axe vs Halberd
This is where I see some problems. I understand Halberd needs to be at best range, and not all monsters allow that to happen with ease, but despite that it still feels off.

Great Axe Charge Damage at level 24 : ~220-265 Chance to hit, 43%
Halberd Charge damage at level 24 - best dist: 240 Chance to hit: 93%

Are polearms more effected by damage resistance than other weapons? For what I can tell they are(might be imagined). When I can pull out a level 9 polearm and do 330 damage to the Bear God (when he's not standing) in skycastle at 93% chance to hit fairly easily staying at optimum range, but pull out a level 15 axe and do maybe 350(untested) at only 43% chance to hit, I get the feeling that there's something a tad off about the balance there.
 

Keldorn

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Polearms do greater damage at greater range, and are designed towards one-on-one combat with slow monsters.

Try hitting an orc at point blank with that halberd, and you'll see why polearms don't scale very well with higher level monsters, which tend to be extremely fast, have teleporting abilities, greater range with knockback, scaling damage according to range _and_ greater range (warlord), or a tendency to swarm you.

It just gets a bit weird with monsters that are very wide, because the game thinks you are slightly more far away than you actually are, as you can tell from where the blood comes from.

Same happens with breakable objects, only to a greater extreme, since the game thinks that you are much, much farther away from them than you actually are.

As for axes, I found that every axe besides the Dragon Axe and Skull Scythe (maybe winter cleaver, but other ice weapons just do a better job because you're not going to use it against <1000 hp monsters) simply can't compete with other weapon lines, as they are the only axes that have decent hit rates and damage/level when compared with other weapon lines.

I assume it's because axe gives the most hp/level, (around 3 boosts per 4 levels) since weapon lines seem to be balanced using a combination of stat rewards, endgame (high level) weapon damage/hitrate, and leveling difficulty.

Polearms give the worst hp besides archery. (just under 2 boosts per 7 levels)
 

lvb2555

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Keldorn said:
It just gets a bit weird with monsters that are very wide, because the game thinks you are slightly more far away than you actually are, as you can tell from where the blood comes from.

Same happens with breakable objects, only to a greater extreme, since the game thinks that you are much, much farther away from them than you actually are.

Oh, interesting. Large monsters I had assumed such, but breakable entities I didn't know about, which would explain why I can break down the dividers in bloodrose cave in one halberd poke yet need 5 or so great axe charge hits.

Dragon Axe is next on my list of acquisitions, I feel I have a greater chance of getting that than the Blood axe right now.
As far as the thunder axe, does it have a charge hit? Or does the rather extreme non-charge damage range account for the lack of one?
 

Keldorn

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I tried using the regular Thunderaxe with a character that has level 40 axe and 40 lightning, it doesn't seem to have a 1st charge (hard hit).

It's probably a bug.

That and the thunderaxe doing slashing damage.

On the blood axe: It does seem to have gotten buffed (before it was only healing 20 health max for some reason), which makes it a viable alternate choice for some maps.
 

Snow Wolf

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Keldorn said:
I tried using the regular Thunderaxe with a character that has level 40 axe and 40 lightning, it doesn't seem to have a 1st charge (hard hit).

It's probably a bug.

That and the thunderaxe doing slashing damage.

On the blood axe: It does seem to have gotten buffed (before it was only healing 20 health max for some reason), which makes it a viable alternate choice for some maps.
still has a low hit chance, you need to roll a 46 on axe 26 or something.
 

lvb2555

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I hope it's a bug, there's a rather large gap between usefulness of the great axes against the smaller axes, and the regular thunderaxe would make a nice transition between them if the hard hit doubles damage.

20 - 180 dmg against unarmored foes is decent enough to ignore the < 40 dmg hits until I can level up to a point where the great axes are more consistent.

Edit: Noticed the bug report Keldorn, thanks. Beat me to the punch. 8)
 
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