Yay, the USA is now... wahh!?

[Netrogor]

Yay!!! The United States of America's military & Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) groups have now been labeled a series of Terrorist Organizations, by the... wait... what the fuck...
God damn "DURKAH DURKAH!" Iranians.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/29/iran.parliament/index.html

Groups they fund build bombs into their own childrens' schools, thinking to "teach us a lesson, for being such evil Americans, funding & supplying construction sites for them," I swear, Middle Eastern fanatics are nothing but shame to the human race. All they do is mock humanity's few good achievements, such as a verbal & written language, to behave as less than jackals. Labeling us a terrorist group, simply because they are throwing a temper tantrum over our well founded accusations (rather, the government's well founded accusations: that have been around for over twenty years, so don't try to link our gov'ts accusations as Bush BS: they, surprisingly, aren't).

You know what this means? If Iran is going to label us terrorists, they are going to attack our soldiers, engineers, civilians, etc, etc... on sight, or imprison them & torture them (more openly than before). They'll suspect every civilian of being "under-cover CIA", based off thirty year old movies that finally reach them... or a sadistic desire to murder.
They'll probably attack & murder engineers on the recourse of their believing said-people to be one-hundred-percent military, since most American engineers are there on military contracts...

Yippee, we're *finally* getting candidates promising to drag troops out of Iraq... and Iran (wow, a whole letter different in spelling, CONSPIRACIES!? ), is causing enough shit to give these candidates an excuse to back out on their promises (for the next presidential election: those candidates, I mean).

Most of this is massive ranting from me, since it's 1:20 AM for me, and I haven't stayed up past 11:00 PM or so since a few days before the school year started... so don't mind me if I have mis-spelled, mis-worded, or worse, throughout my, predominantly so, rant.

EDIT:
First paragraph spiffying up... immediately done after creation.

 

[Thothie]

*sigh* I'm going to cry now.

Fortunately I'm too busy with Master Sword atm to even begin to comment on this.

 

[Red Cell]

Is this a joke?

No wait it's in the serious forum.

 

[Wrath]

*sigh* I'm going to cry now.

Fortunately I'm too busy with Master Sword atm to even begin to comment on this.

You just did comment!

And WTF?! It makes sense and all that they call us terrorists and some of the stuff we do there is really fucked up to. I can really understand what they are getting at..... ARRR WE BE TERRORISTS FREEDOM BOMB THEM ALL RAWR!

 

[HomestarR]

Well, being that they didn't mention the USAF or (an agency whose name I will not reveal) to be terrorists, then I guess I am safe from being labeled as one for now.

They are crazy, and I am all for wiping them all out. Nip it in the bud.

*edit*
Removed the name of one of my "employers", being that none of you have the clearance or the need to know.

 

[Cuith]

Before I comment on this, I'll just say that I only read the very first part.

Yay!!! The United States of America's military & Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) groups have now been labeled a series of Terrorist Organizations, by the... wait... what the ****...
God damn "DURKAH DURKAH!" Iranians.

I completely agree with them. Look at what the US government has been doing for the past 5 years. Well, I guess not really 5, but definitely the last couple of years.

Sure, we're not flying planes into their buildings or setting off bombs in vans around their cities. Its still pretty fucking close to terrorism, though.

 

[Netrogor]

Terrorism is the act of spreading terror & fear to accomplish a goal. The US hasn't done anything even remotely close to that. We've been helping them rebuild their schools, colleges, homes, and even their own defense networks, with a proper law system.

When we do something that they dislike, it's removing an obstacle & absolutely crushing it: leaving nothing behind, because our military has no reason to spread fear by leaving witnesses in certain events.

They kidnap people & release videos threatening their lives, almost always ending up in taking them. As I previously mentioned, they build bombs into schools meant for their children, with the purpose of spreading yet more fear.

Terror is the act of spreading fear: if the US Army spreads fear by simply existing, then it is an exception to the Terrorism Groups, since it isn't aiming to do as such.

Comparison:
Middle Eastern Terrorist:
Records videos of civilians they are going to kill, and the act of killing said-civilians, with the intent to cause fear amongst the other civilians, and to throw said-victim's family & friends into emotional hell. Their purpose - to make life harder on humanity, stopping the possibility of progress.

US Soldier "Terrorist":
Records videos of dancing to songs, having fun, boosting morale, being human. Extremely evil, they know how to live & that life is precious. So much worse than the middle eastern terrorist... I mean, seriously, there can be no good found within someone who'd laugh at something funny & cry when seeing something atrocious (I.E.- psycho middle eastern execution videos).


Everything I posted was serious, except the US Soldier in comparison setup... as you can obviously tell, since people who aren't obsessed with hurting others aren't evil.

 

[Sabre]

Terrorism is the act of spreading terror & fear to accomplish a goal. The US hasn't done anything even remotely close to that. We've been helping them rebuild their schools, colleges, homes, and even their own defense networks, with a proper law system.

Much as you want to think that what we're doing is a good thing...We are actually being fascist by imposing a new social structure and law system...Terrorists attempt to do something within that sphere, but have little means of actually obtaining their goal, at least most of the time.

 

[tehrilez]

i think they ignored the fact they crashed planes into our buildings, for allah or whatever they were trying to accomplish.

 

[Netrogor]

Sabre: I never said we were doing something "great," or "good."

I mentioned we were helping them rebuild... but I did not say we weren't responsible for much of that destruction, nor did I say we weren't abusing our presence for political reasons. You're jumping the gun, Sabre, thinking I'm narrow-minded & idealistic. I'm not assuming anything based off what you post here... because I know you aren't posting your absolute views. So don't do so to me. Assumptions, reading books by the cover alone... they are ineffective.

 

[Sabre]

No matter, they can accuse us of being terrorists...Because our country does the same damned thing. Given the following comment with which you opened your argument;

God damn "DURKAH DURKAH!" Iranians.

One could see how my point is apt. The fact of the matter is that America has deemed itself important enough to impose itself onto the Middle East, and when a country like Iran actually tries to stand up against it (Never mind the hostage crisis, we're talking now), then we...impose ourselves.
The American Heritage Dictionary(as read from answers.com) defines fascism as:

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Rebuilding society?
Insurgents?
Racism?


I see that thar in this whole "War on Terror."

The whole issue is that if Iran and all of these countries accuse us of being terrorists, then we go in and 'change their opinion,' that's not right. Incidentally, if they were so dependent on our funding and resources, they wouldn't be doing such a thing...But they are. Why? They have money. Oil, it does a government good.
Moreover,

The Iranian lawmakers' condemnation was in apparent retaliation for the U.S. Senate's resolution Wednesday requesting that the United States designate Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, or Quds Force, as a foreign terrorist organization.

Look at that...Maybe they had some degree of justification thar.

 

[HomestarR]

No matter, they can accuse us of being terrorists...Because our country does the same damned thing.

Show me a video of my brothers in arms torturing and decapitating innocent civilians, destroying structures with total disregard for what innocents may be lost in the process, or publicly saying on air that we will destroy their country, and then I may believe you.

One could see how my point is apt. The fact of the matter is that America has deemed itself important enough to impose itself onto the Middle East, and when a country like Iran actually tries to stand up against it (Never mind the hostage crisis, we're talking now), then we...impose ourselves.

With power comes responsibility. When someone turns down the wrong path, and you have the power and ability to correct them, wouldn't you correct them? It isn't a perceived "self-importance" we have, it is fact. The USA is indeed powerful, and important. If we were some third world country you can bet your ass we wouldn't do anything. The current world leader would have to though. We just happen to be it.

You then go on to define fascism. Are we truely taking away freedoms and oppressing the innocent? We may lock up the violent extremists, but that is for the safety of everyone involved. Some people are too dangerous to let roam around as they like. Would you have preferred anarchy? The Mid East was unstable even without our involvement, and it would have inevitably led to a bloody civil war of some sorts greater than the likes we have seen yet. Worse yet, it could have even possibly spread to our allies, and maybe even to our borders.

The whole issue is that if Iran and all of these countries accuse us of being terrorists, then we go in and 'change their opinion,' that's not right.

Incorrect, a select few extremists and nut cases call us terrorists. They aren't a democracy yet, and their leader's views don't always reflect the will of the people. You ever consider that maybe the true voice of their people is being suppressed by the crazies with all the oil that run the Mid East?

The Iranian lawmakers' condemnation was in apparent retaliation for the U.S. Senate's resolution Wednesday requesting that the United States designate Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, or Quds Force, as a foreign terrorist organization.

Look at that...Maybe they had some degree of justification thar.

The difference is they actually were involved in terrorist-like behavior. Including but not limited to human rights violations, torturing, killing innocents, being radical in their approaches, and supporting known terrorists.

It is impossible to truly grasp and understand the situation in its entirety just by reading the news and watching TV.

 

[Red Cell]

Netrogor and Homestar. You need a history lesson on The United States of America.

 

[Red Cell]

I guess I will break down Homestar's post since I have some time.

No matter, they can accuse us of being terrorists...Because our country does the same damned thing.

Show me a video of my brothers in arms torturing and decapitating innocent civilians, destroying structures with total disregard for what innocents may be lost in the process, or publicly saying on air that we will destroy their country, and then I may believe you.

We do the same exact thing. We just don't publicize it. If you look at what the CIA has done to countries in South America and South East Asia, you wouldn't be saying "prove it." The CIA hasn't just taken a few people hostage, they have taken down whole leaderships and countries because it did fit in America's best interests. What I find funny is that America has even taken down democracies and put in dictatorships so we could control them through that leader.

One could see how my point is apt. The fact of the matter is that America has deemed itself important enough to impose itself onto the Middle East, and when a country like Iran actually tries to stand up against it (Never mind the hostage crisis, we're talking now), then we...impose ourselves.

With power comes responsibility. When someone turns down the wrong path, and you have the power and ability to correct them, wouldn't you correct them? It isn't a perceived "self-importance" we have, it is fact. The USA is indeed powerful, and important. If we were some third world country you can bet your ass we wouldn't do anything. The current world leader would have to though. We just happen to be it.

We don't HAVE to do shit. Infact, our founding fathers did not want us to get involved in foreign affairs. And if we are some how willed(by who?) to fix problems. How about we fix the huge fucking genocide in the darfur region that has been happening for YEARS now. Or, how about we stop Saudi Arabia, they are a Monarchy, but oh wait, we are allies with them. We won't touch them. Your whole preaching about how we need to save the world is seriously lacking seeing how there are parts of the world that are in great need and we do nothing. It is all about what benefits america, what is in america's best interest at that time, it is not about actually helping others.

You then go on to define fascism. Are we truely taking away freedoms and oppressing the innocent? We may lock up the violent extremists, but that is for the safety of everyone involved. Some people are too dangerous to let roam around as they like. Would you have preferred anarchy? The Mid East was unstable even without our involvement, and it would have inevitably led to a bloody civil war of some sorts greater than the likes we have seen yet. Worse yet, it could have even possibly spread to our allies, and maybe even to our borders.

You're right, the Mid East was unstable even without our involvement, but it's not going to change with our involvement either. It has been unstable for thousands of years. What makes you think we can change it? And how the fuck do you know it would have led to a bloody civil war, what the fuck are you talking about? Are a historian? What are your reasons for saying that it would become a civil war, and between who?

The whole issue is that if Iran and all of these countries accuse us of being terrorists, then we go in and 'change their opinion,' that's not right.

Incorrect, a select few extremists and nut cases call us terrorists. They aren't a democracy yet, and their leader's views don't always reflect the will of the people. You ever consider that maybe the true voice of their people is being suppressed by the crazies with all the oil that run the Mid East?

I am neither a nut case nor an extremist and I can tell you certain parts of our government or not apart of but closely affiliated with our government do in fact do terrorist acts. We are a democracy, and the views of my leaders do not reflect my will. What is your point? Just because you're a democracy it's automatically different.

##**DEMOCRACY**##
WE ARE SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Iranian lawmakers' condemnation was in apparent retaliation for the U.S. Senate's resolution Wednesday requesting that the United States designate Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, or Quds Force, as a foreign terrorist organization.

Look at that...Maybe they had some degree of justification thar.

The difference is they actually were involved in terrorist-like behavior. Including but not limited to human rights violations, torturing, killing innocents, being radical in their approaches, and supporting known terrorists.

You still don't know what agencies like the CIA do. You pretty much listed a lot of it.

It is impossible to truly grasp and understand the situation in its entirety just by reading the news and watching TV.

No shit, you need to take some history lessons.'

EDIT:

*edit*
Removed the name of one of my "employers", being that none of you have the clearance or the need to know.

Seeing as I pay for your agency to be employed, I wouldn't mind knowing who my money is going to and for what purpose.

 

[Sabre]

Note:
By the accusation thing, I was meaning that we accuse others of terrorism.

 

[Netrogor]

I guess I will break down Homestar's post since I have some time.

We do the same exact thing. We just don't publicize it. If you look at what the CIA has done to countries in South America and South East Asia, you wouldn't be saying "prove it." The CIA hasn't just taken a few people hostage, they have taken down whole leaderships and countries because it did fit in America's best interests. What I find funny is that America has even taken down democracies and put in dictatorships so we could control them through that leader.

We don't HAVE to do ****. Infact, our founding fathers did not want us to get involved in foreign affairs. And if we are some how willed(by who?) to fix problems. How about we fix the huge **** genocide in the darfur region that has been happening for YEARS now. Or, how about we stop Saudi Arabia, they are a Monarchy, but oh wait, we are allies with them. We won't touch them. Your whole preaching about how we need to save the world is seriously lacking seeing how there are parts of the world that are in great need and we do nothing. It is all about what benefits america, what is in america's best interest at that time, it is not about actually helping others.

You're right, the Mid East was unstable even without our involvement, but it's not going to change with our involvement either. It has been unstable for thousands of years. What makes you think we can change it? And how the **** do you know it would have led to a bloody civil war, what the **** are you talking about? Are a historian? What are your reasons for saying that it would become a civil war, and between who?

I am neither a nut case nor an extremist and I can tell you certain parts of our government or not apart of but closely affiliated with our government do in fact do terrorist acts. We are a democracy, and the views of my leaders do not reflect my will. What is your point? Just because you're a democracy it's automatically different.

##**DEMOCRACY**##
WE ARE SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You still don't know what agencies like the CIA do. You pretty much listed a lot of it.

EDIT:

*edit*
Removed the name of one of my "employers", being that none of you have the clearance or the need to know.

Seeing as I pay for your agency to be employed, I wouldn't mind knowing who my money is going to and for what purpose.

Read the following carefully, so as to best avoid becoming a hypocrite, or bigot, or both, etc, etc.

Red-Cell, don't tell other people they don't know what they are talking about... then openly prove you are likewise in the same boat, whilst protesting you are somehow better informed.

1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Definition of terrorism. The CIA is an intelligence agency: you chose the wrong one as the torturers, Red. They are affiliated with torture specialists: but they don't personally handle everything.

And terror is the act of causing fear... by publicizing it. Government agencies can't commit acts of terrorism without making any war-time-appropriate, yet "scary", acts known on a wide-scale.

If our Government hadn't affiliated & created groups to (temporary groups) take down certain leaderships... there'd be a lot more "Fidel Castro's" in this world, people who run mixes between communist & dictatorship for their countries... where people like you would be executed for such open opinions. So yea, Democracy is something special when compared to other well made forms of government.

And telling people to take history lessons... to learn more about the CIA? You must be on crack, Red... CIA hasn't been around as long as you'd think. There's nothing in history to teach us about it, since it isn't a common part of government to have an agency with the purpose of gathering & publicizing information (upon deeming it valid & safe to release without causing acts of violence or destruction).

As to how HomestaR, and myself, know there would have been a civil war, and a very bloody one, in the middle east without us...
I suppose you haven't been paying attention to world events, have you, Red? Where they mentioned that, before we took Saddam out, he'd been genociding Kurds in Iraq... trying to push out & kill them in other countries, too.

The middle-eastern countries that liked Kurdish people would've lashed out, and... presto, civil war. And an ethnic based one, at that... Narrow-minded to think people wouldn't have a violent civil war under such uncontrolled circumstances. Better the middle-east fears the US & blames America for their problems, despite our helping so much, financially & security-wise, than to have them massacre each other, indiscriminate between men, women, and children (of any age).

Historians will back it up, too, Red. There's been violent civil wars & genocides & massacres in the middle east for a long time; a very, very, long time. With biological weaponry, gas bombs, and the ability to move fast & destroy everything effectively... it's only natural an especially violent break would occur.

Democracy... sure, it won't automatically save the world & turn everything into a paradise... but it enables the hope for one, the ability to morph itself accordingly to best suit the common populace of said-country. The twenty-seven amendments are a grand example of that. Not perfect, but pliable to what will suit a government best to remain strong.

And no: I disagree with finding out who HomestaR's employer is. That's openly saying you'd like to damn HomestaR and his right to privacy... that you have an interest in seeing him on one of those execution videos from the Middle East, some day. He doesn't deserve to be made an open target, nor do his employers, because you feel pissy that he's doing something without telling you. You don't pay his agency, or him: you pay a fraction, a very pathetic fraction, of the money that reaches him... in return, he agrees to die for you if someone threatens you in an attempt to violate your rights.

 

[Netrogor]

Oh, and... sorry for the double post, but the previous one is too big to squeeze something in...

Sabre, you're right. We do accuse others of terrorism. Funny thing is... they don't need to be accused: they publicly release videos showing acts of extreme terror, with the intent of instilling fear throughout those who witness them.

Their coastal guard, or whoever they are, were labeled terrorist for kidnapping & executing people who weren't even their enemies. The US Military & CIA were labeled terrorists for... well... being branches of the US Government, and collecting information for the sake of protecting Americans.

What the CIA is important: damn the bad things they do, who cares. They effectively protect us from being nuked. Didn't you ever hear of the anthrax scare? Where terrorists decided to use the postal service as a method of attacking us with biological weapons. Was just this decade that it got a lot of attention. CIA played its part in protecting civilians, such as myself, and you, from that issue, and continue gathering information through whichever method happens to work best...

EDIT:
And yes: a Jihad (holy war)... that is enough for these uncivilized barbarians (wee, I must sound like a tenth century *holier than thou* pope with this tid-bit!) to genocide, massacre, and terrorize anybody in disagreement with them. Labeling US Soldiers & CIA terrorists... that's a good excuse for them to kill our own on sight, now.
And no: you don't have the right to say US Soldiers & CIA agents deserve death (like that Fox News psycho, and evil, lady was saying... saying everyone deserved death & eternal torment in hell for defending "fags" in america (fox ridiculed and called her evil, thankfully... they are too into drama, letting evil people like her on TV for ratings... it works, sadly enough))... people in the US Military & other branches of government are essentially civilians putting themselves at risk for others, or because they aren't good at anything else.

 

[Sabre]

Read the following carefully, so as to best avoid becoming a hypocrite, or bigot, or both, etc, etc.

Red-Cell, don't tell other people they don't know what they are talking about... then openly prove you are likewise in the same boat, whilst protesting you are somehow better informed.

1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Definition of terrorism. The CIA is an intelligence agency: you chose the wrong one as the torturers, Red. They are affiliated with torture specialists: but they don't personally handle everything.

And terror is the act of causing fear... by publicizing it. Government agencies can't commit acts of terrorism without making any war-time-appropriate, yet "scary", acts known on a wide-scale.

If our Government hadn't affiliated & created groups to (temporary groups) take down certain leaderships... there'd be a lot more "Fidel Castro's" in this world, people who run mixes between communist & dictatorship for their countries... where people like you would be executed for such open opinions. So yea, Democracy is something special when compared to other well made forms of government.

And telling people to take history lessons... to learn more about the CIA? You must be on crack, Red... CIA hasn't been around as long as you'd think. There's nothing in history to teach us about it, since it isn't a common part of government to have an agency with the purpose of gathering & publicizing information (upon deeming it valid & safe to release without causing acts of violence or destruction).

As to how HomestaR, and myself, know there would have been a civil war, and a very bloody one, in the middle east without us...
I suppose you haven't been paying attention to world events, have you, Red? Where they mentioned that, before we took Saddam out, he'd been genociding Kurds in Iraq... trying to push out & kill them in other countries, too.

The middle-eastern countries that liked Kurdish people would've lashed out, and... presto, civil war. And an ethnic based one, at that... Narrow-minded to think people wouldn't have a violent civil war under such uncontrolled circumstances. Better the middle-east fears the US & blames America for their problems, despite our helping so much, financially & security-wise, than to have them massacre each other, indiscriminate between men, women, and children (of any age).

Historians will back it up, too, Red. There's been violent civil wars & genocides & massacres in the middle east for a long time; a very, very, long time. With biological weaponry, gas bombs, and the ability to move fast & destroy everything effectively... it's only natural an especially violent break would occur.

Democracy... sure, it won't automatically save the world & turn everything into a paradise... but it enables the hope for one, the ability to morph itself accordingly to best suit the common populace of said-country. The twenty-seven amendments are a grand example of that. Not perfect, but pliable to what will suit a government best to remain strong.

And no: I disagree with finding out who HomestaR's employer is. That's openly saying you'd like to damn HomestaR and his right to privacy... that you have an interest in seeing him on one of those execution videos from the Middle East, some day. He doesn't deserve to be made an open target, nor do his employers, because you feel pissy that he's doing something without telling you. You don't pay his agency, or him: you pay a fraction, a very pathetic fraction, of the money that reaches him... in return, he agrees to die for you if someone threatens you in an attempt to violate your rights.

I picked through this one;
Net...You are a minor, no? That means you don't pay shit to run the government. And how you can compare Red's wanting to know HomestarR's employer to Red wanting to see people die on camera...Is rather unnerving, and a hastily drawn and HIGHLY inappropriate conclusion.
Also, just cause the CIA has only been around since the late 40's/ early 50's doesn't mean that it has had no impact upon history...You forget about the CIA's predecessor the OSS, and the fact that governments have always spied upon and stole information from other countries...The CIA is merely a name to what has been happening for quite a long time.
Moreover, this point;

If our Government hadn't affiliated & created groups to (temporary groups) take down certain leaderships... there'd be a lot more "Fidel Castro's" in this world, people who run mixes between communist & dictatorship for their countries...

We have too put dictators into power; look up Nicaragua and the Iran-contra affair, where we directly went in as anti-revolutionaries. Just because the government didn't always get its way doesn't mean it tried.

 

[Red Cell]

Read the following carefully, so as to best avoid becoming a hypocrite, or bigot, or both, etc, etc.

Red-Cell, don't tell other people they don't know what they are talking about... then openly prove you are likewise in the same boat, whilst protesting you are somehow better informed.

I don't even know how to take this. How am I in the same boat? And you sir, are a **##God damn "DURKAH DURKAH!"##** racist. I don't believe I am in the racist boat. And I never protested saying I was better informed, I said YOU need to get better informed.

1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Definition of terrorism. The CIA is an intelligence agency: you chose the wrong one as the torturers, Red. They are affiliated with torture specialists: but they don't personally handle everything.

So what? Because they use third parties to do their dirty work that gets them off the hook? And it's not JUST an intelligence agency. And I don't mean just the CIA are the only ones that do this type of stuff.

And terror is the act of causing fear... by publicizing it. Government agencies can't commit acts of terrorism without making any war-time-appropriate, yet "scary", acts known on a wide-scale.

What I meant was by not publicizing is that the American people don't hear about it (as I can tell you are one of these people). They still cause fear, though bloody coups or assassinations with the people in that country.

If our Government hadn't affiliated & created groups to (temporary groups) take down certain leaderships... there'd be a lot more "Fidel Castro's" in this world, people who run mixes between communist & dictatorship for their countries... where people like you would be executed for such open opinions. So yea, Democracy is something special when compared to other well made forms of government.

Funny that you might mention Fidel Castro. Before Fidel Castro overthrew Fulgencio Batista, Batista was a stong ally with America, even though he was not a democracy, he was the de facto military leader and president of cuba. He was very racist and a lot of races were forced into a constant state of poverty by his government. Then university educated Fidel Castro came in and freed these people. Of course he ruled with an iron fist, i.e. no free speech and press, but he helped everyone be more equal. It's funny how Fidel Castro is viewed as such a horrible person. When our government openly supported the racist dictator that was inpower before Castro. So what is the better one? A leader that forces certain people into poverty or a government where everyone is equal yet you can't speak your mind? Hmmmm. Like I said, get more educated on your history.

And telling people to take history lessons... to learn more about the CIA? You must be on crack, Red... CIA hasn't been around as long as you'd think. There's nothing in history to teach us about it, since it isn't a common part of government to have an agency with the purpose of gathering & publicizing information (upon deeming it valid & safe to release without causing acts of violence or destruction).

It's funny that you might mention crack. Some believe the CIA was smuggling in crack into the USA. Or excuse me, CIA-backed Contras, were drug smuggling. Either way I find it hilarious you chose that certain drug. And the CIA has been around long enough to fuck shit up. And there is plenty to learn about, I believe it's after 25 years or something to that extent they need to revile the information to the general public(which I doubt they even show half of it no matter how old it is). But there is still a ton of coups and revolutions the CIA has helped start, support, or end, in the best interests of the good old US of A.

As to how HomestaR, and myself, know there would have been a civil war, and a very bloody one, in the middle east without us...
I suppose you haven't been paying attention to world events, have you, Red? Where they mentioned that, before we took Saddam out, he'd been genociding Kurds in Iraq... trying to push out & kill them in other countries, too.

APRENTLY I HAVENT!!!!!!!!

The middle-eastern countries that liked Kurdish people would've lashed out, and... presto, civil war. And an ethnic based one, at that... Narrow-minded to think people wouldn't have a violent civil war under such uncontrolled circumstances. Better the middle-east fears the US & blames America for their problems, despite our helping so much, financially & security-wise, than to have them massacre each other, indiscriminate between men, women, and children (of any age).

Oh on a side note, if another country is attacking another country, it's not a CIVIL war. What grade are you in?

Historians will back it up, too, Red. There's been violent civil wars & genocides & massacres in the middle east for a long time; a very, very, long time. With biological weaponry, gas bombs, and the ability to move fast & destroy everything effectively... it's only natural an especially violent break would occur.

No shit there have been violent wars, ITS A VIOLENT PLACE! Didn't I already say this? But it stems way back to the crusades too, you know, before gas bombs, when they had swords.

Democracy... sure, it won't automatically save the world & turn everything into a paradise... but it enables the hope for one, the ability to morph itself accordingly to best suit the common populace of said-country. The twenty-seven amendments are a grand example of that. Not perfect, but pliable to what will suit a government best to remain strong.

I agree.

And no: I disagree with finding out who HomestaR's employer is. That's openly saying you'd like to damn HomestaR and his right to privacy... that you have an interest in seeing him on one of those execution videos from the Middle East, some day. He doesn't deserve to be made an open target, nor do his employers, because you feel pissy that he's doing something without telling you. You don't pay his agency, or him: you pay a fraction, a very pathetic fraction, of the money that reaches him... in return, he agrees to die for you if someone threatens you in an attempt to violate your rights.

What the fuck, I am his employer. I EMPLOY HIM. I PAY FOR HIS SHIT. I do not want to see him get executed you dumb fuck, I don't think you understand this. I pay the government taxes, taxes are what keep the government running, Homestar works for the government THEREFORE I AM HIS EMPLOYER. And it might be a pathetic fraction as you say, but say if 1 million people didn't pay taxes, say 300 million people didn't pay taxes, there would be a US goverment you dipshit, everyone has a role to play in supporting the government. It goes the same for voting. Saying oh I'm not going to vote because it doesn't matter, is fuck ing stupid, if everyone thought that way we wouldn't be a democracy. And I understand certain things shouldn't be revealed to save people but come on, saying who he works for on the MS:C forums is really gonna GET HIM DEAD!!!

 

[Netrogor]

@ Red Cell

- I never said anything even remotely racist, nor did I call you racist. I said you were in the same uninformed boat as the rest of us, since public knowledge is available to everyone, and that's all you're going off from, thus far.

- You seem to have a bad-guy-complex or something, blaming everything on the CIA, trying to make them out as an "evil" organization.

- Well gee Red, if they aren't publicizing it... then how are they terrorists? Last I checked, the middle east didn't have widespread electricity & television networks to their masses, for any of their countries. Makes it hard to undermine a government with an act of terror... something resorted to when you lack several hundred thousand soldiers on said-territory.... wait... shit... we have several hundred thousand soldiers.

- And I know Fidel Castro isn't horrible as a leader or as a person. His government setup is weak, though, since it will go into disarray once he dies off, and his brother follows him. It'll result in yet another "revolution" as some people fight to mock the American government, and many others fight to take over the "throne" of dictatorship.

- Keep invalid conspiracies out of this, Red... we don't need the "zomgz, MAYBZE THE CIA HELPED SMUGGLE IN CRACK!!!"... keep to well-known facts. Conspiracy Mockery

- So you don't pay attention to world news or speak with historians, but you still go ahead with this "holier than thou" attitude, as though you're better informed than everyone else here?

- Lets see... they have different ethnicities in every country... so if one country attacks over one of those... and the people inside defending country rise up... civil war... therefore... lots of blood.

- Re-read what I stated about gas bombs & bio-weaponry. I was stating it is much more rampant, now. I very openly said it's been as such for a long time... so that's a double mockery of yourself trying to make it seem like I lacked that knowledge.

- Good.

- Seventeen years old: my school is more than encouraging in getting part-time jobs, which I'm rummaging for right now. Paying income taxes doesn't restrict itself as much as you think to eighteen & up.
His employer... that's someone else, that a fraction of your taxes pays for, who is employing him.

@ Sabre

Refer to my last comment to Red Cell, just because I'm a minor... doesn't mean I don't pay taxes. Part-time job, income tax... yea, work it out yourself.

He wants to unveil HomestaR's personal information, as public information. Make every soldiers' private information public, and terrorists have a bit more incentive to go after certain targets, that they undoubtedly will choose. So trying to force that on someone... it's like asking them to put themselves at yet a greater risk than they already are, by being in a military position. I over-exaggerated how serious it is, but it is still a serious thing to want such information made public, if it isn't already.

I believe I already mentioned I'm entirely okay with our government executing certain actions for an overall benefit or hope of benefit, didn't I? If we didn't set up dummy colonies by false leaders, in hopes of controlling them, then some other country would... in-fact, other countries still do that. If you can't stand reality, then play more video games & ignore it.

To Red Cell's earlier comment saying the Constitutional Framers (aka founding fathers, as they are called) not wanting to deal with foreign affairs....

We don't HAVE to do ****. Infact, our founding fathers did not want us to get involved in foreign affairs. And if we are some how willed(by who?) to fix problems. How about we fix the huge **** genocide in the darfur region that has been happening for YEARS now. Or, how about we stop Saudi Arabia, they are a Monarchy, but oh wait, we are allies with them. We won't touch them. Your whole preaching about how we need to save the world is seriously lacking seeing how there are parts of the world that are in great need and we do nothing. It is all about what benefits america, what is in america's best interest at that time, it is not about actually helping others.

that's a testament to how ill-informed you are, Red. The Framers believed in Mercantilism, which means exporting more than you import, therefore... they weren't xenophobia inflicted men... they more than wanted to deal with foreign affairs.

Besides... what the Framers wanted... how's that relevant to now? The American Government was made so that it might change with time. Not as a testament to the "power of the Framers". So not only did you completely misjudge their well documented views about foreign affairs... but you weren't even being relevant to this debate. (Once this is over, I'm definitely going to forget about it... so try not to obsess over this as an excuse to dislike me in a week or four days) 8)

 

[Sabre]

Break down:

- I never said anything even remotely racist, nor did I call you racist. I said you were in the same uninformed boat as the rest of us, since public knowledge is available to everyone, and that's all you're going off from, thus far.

Opening an argument with "Goddamn 'DURKAH DURKAH' Iranians" is implying that just because they're Iranian it automatically means that they're terroristic.

- You seem to have a bad-guy-complex or something, blaming everything on the CIA, trying to make them out as an "evil" organization.

- Well gee Red, if they aren't publicizing it... then how are they terrorists? Last I checked, the middle east didn't have widespread electricity & television networks to their masses, for any of their countries. Makes it hard to undermine a government with an act of terror... something resorted to when you lack several hundred thousand soldiers on said-territory.... wait... ****... we have several hundred thousand soldiers.

The Middle East does have television, and therefore electricity; you're giving them less credit than they deserve. The idea behind terrorism is intimidation and literally bullying someone into doing something...Just because the CIA(or other intelligence sects of government) don't publicize what they do immediately after they do it doesn't mean that they don't do it altogether. Fear is a weapon more than anything; a reputation can intimidate almost anyone, hence you've terrorism.

- Keep invalid conspiracies out of this, Red... we don't need the "zomgz, MAYBZE THE CIA HELPED SMUGGLE IN CRACK!!!"... keep to well-known facts. Conspiracy Mockery

Who's to say that they did or didn't traffic drugs? Also, your link is irrelevant to the argument, avoid fallacies like that or you will make everything you say less believable.

- So you don't pay attention to world news or speak with historians, but you still go ahead with this "holier than thou" attitude, as though you're better informed than everyone else here?

Another fallacy; keep to the argument and don't attack your opponent, it, once again, discredits you.(Welcome to the great big world of politics.)

I believe I already mentioned I'm entirely okay with our government executing certain actions for an overall benefit or hope of benefit, didn't I? If we didn't set up dummy colonies by false leaders, in hopes of controlling them, then some other country would... in-fact, other countries still do that. If you can't stand reality, then play more video games & ignore it.

You're saying that it's important for us to go in and completely re-structure a country just for an overall benefit? You don't find it ironic that we wave democracy in smaller/other countries' faces, and then if they don't have or don't want democracy, we go in there and establish dictatorships? Where's the logic in that?

To Red Cell's earlier comment saying the Constitutional Framers (aka founding fathers, as they are called) not wanting to deal with foreign affairs....
Red Cell wrote:
We don't HAVE to do ****. Infact, our founding fathers did not want us to get involved in foreign affairs. And if we are some how willed(by who?) to fix problems. How about we fix the huge **** genocide in the darfur region that has been happening for YEARS now. Or, how about we stop Saudi Arabia, they are a Monarchy, but oh wait, we are allies with them. We won't touch them. Your whole preaching about how we need to save the world is seriously lacking seeing how there are parts of the world that are in great need and we do nothing. It is all about what benefits america, what is in america's best interest at that time, it is not about actually helping others.

that's a testament to how ill-informed you are, Red. The Framers believed in Mercantilism, which means exporting more than you import, therefore... they weren't xenophobia inflicted men... they more than wanted to deal with foreign affairs.

Mercantilism is an economic term. He is referring to foreign relations, in which he is correct in that the United States practiced a type of isolationism (No alliances, and things of that nature). This essentially ended at the onset of imperialism/World War One.

Besides... what the Framers wanted... how's that relevant to now? The American Government was made so that it might change with time. Not as a testament to the "power of the Framers". So not only did you completely misjudge their well documented views about foreign affairs... but you weren't even being relevant to this debate.

First three sentences; I agree. The rest...Ad hominem. Before you stamp on what he said, make sure you do your research.

 

[Netrogor]

- Not all Iranians are of a specific color. Not racist, because there are whites amongst their population. Don't twist my words, or their meanings. Ignoramus.

- Practically every American home has electricity & television. Iran has some cities and the sorts with that, but many more without. If by being a world power we are automatically terrorist, then fine... so be it. You've declared that there will always be terrorist so long as there are societies that function. (functioning societies result in power)

- I already mentioned the drug thing was off topic... in-fact, you quoted my saying it, stating it wasn't a well known fact nor of relevance. Nice going, you made a double mockery of yourself, again.

- Yes, it was off from the main argument: but you were ranting about history lessons. I decided I'd give you a light love-tap in the face, showing that you are full of yourself. Thanks for asserting my point in your own reply.

- Where did I say I believed it to be important that our country executes these such actions? I said I'm okay with it. There's an infinitely wide line between those, since they are such straight-forward statements... believing something to be important or simply being okay with it.

- You're thinking of the wrong country. After the World Wars, it was Japan & China that were forced out of Isolationists beliefs... read your history, and do it carefully. America was one of the world powers that forced them to come out. It wasn't that the US didn't have any alliances, it was that the country wasn't active in the world of International Politics... great help from the Great Depression, for that... our economy is a primary priority, since it is essential to power, wealth, luxuries, etc, etc.

- Who is "he". Are you telling me... you believe the American Government & Constitution were made by a single person? Bravo, the ultimatum in your display of ignorance. Fifty-five men met & discussed it: not one. So, not "he", but "they".

You need to stop branching to off-topic subjects, Sabre; talking about history lessons, the framers, and other random non-related subjects... then telling me I'm going off-topic, after I tell you you're going off-topic... those mind games won't work here.

 

[Cuith]

^You've got learning to do.

 

[Netrogor]

Me...?
Of course I do. There's no end to learning.

 

[Red Cell]

Lol I can't even take this thread seriously. This should be moved to off topic.