One handed spells

[Postal]

*looks at oblivion*

Personally I think it'd be a good idea, make spells for usefull since you can use them faster (obviously may need balancing) this way it makes using one handed weapons or shields a possible better option (instead of everyone with BD/fshard n stuff like that). I don't mean all spells should be, some of the more powerful ones (volcano, healing circle, freeze sphere since its way too useful, ect.) would be better off not being unless you met a certain sc level.

possibly something like a tertiary attack key (yes, got that from sven coop) could be used for w/e spell you pre-set. or possibly some spells could be made specifically for this. Just a suggestion, so might as well post it.

 

[Borya]

As a wizard, I whole-heartedly disagree.

 

[Echo717]

perhaps weaker one handed counterparts to some of the two handed spells

 

[Borya]

perhaps weaker one handed counterparts to some of the two handed spells

Then later down the road...

"We need more spells, more GOOD spells. How about some spells for post-20 Spellcasting?"
"But mister spellcaster guy, you have PLENTY of spells! The one handed ones! They're good enough! We can't use shields with our two-handed swords, but you can cast things?! You have more spells than I have swords! I think we need more swords. You shouldn't ask for so much!"
(crowd of a few dozen people yell that they need more swords)
"But what about you? You have the Felewyn's Blade, Torkolath's Big Toe, Blood Drinker Mk. IV, and Urdual's Shortswords of Law and Chaos! We haven't gotten anything since we were given a one-handed Fire Dart!"
"We don't care! You can use a shield and we can't! If anything you're spells should be nerfed, and you should only gain half XP! Give us more swords! Our swords are so weak! We need something better! Why can't we have something for 70 Swordsmanship?!?!"

And thusly, the sword users whine, moan, complain, and cry until the spellcasters are stuck with naught but anything past the SC15 requirement, while they're well on their way to having an effective weapon to grind 70 to 75 with, all because Spellcasters got something of trivial use many many moons ago.

Moral of the story? Fuck sword users.

 

[zeus9860]

Meh, i dont see much advantages on having that... And its not that bad to unequip a weapon and cast a spell. :roll:

Moral of the story? **** sword users.

 

[Borya]

Oh yeah, because you're the only douche bag allowed to post things only tangentially related to a topic? ;P

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Post.

I understood about 0% of that.
I'll try reading it again later.

 

[Nova]

Borya got dissed by J-M!
Err, sorry. Anyway, in response Borya,
I highly doubt Postal is saying "OMFG GIVE US SOM MOR SPELLS", he's just saying that it'd be nice to make some previously existant spells one handed, like maybe the weaker ones. I'd personally like having Rebuke Undead or some of the worse summoning spells (i.e. rats) one handed, but that's just me.
Also, you're a wizard, and to be honest I don't see many of those. I'd say most of the players on MSC that are above level 20-30 are Thugs, Fencers, Titans, and any other classes that use weapons, and not spells. It could make it a bit easier for the majority of MSC players. (I'm a thug by the way.)
And Borya, I see your point, but Postal is not asking for more spells, just a change in some of the weaker spells.

Edit: Oh, you were responding to Echo, my bad. But either way you only responded to Postal with an "I disagree " statement, and not much reason. I'm not saying your opinion is bad, but I'd like to know why you disagree.

 

[Tentadrilus]

Oh yeah, because you're the only douche bag allowed to post things only tangentially related to a topic? ;P

Please look up "tangentially" and reconsider the structure of that sentence.

 

[Sabre]

Oh yeah? Well I'm gonna tangentially change the subject of this topic to YOUR FACE.

 

[Postal]

:/

 

[Nova]

This is a topic of a nice suggestion, NOT A SPAM FEST >

 

[Borya]

* Main Entry: 1tan·gent
* Pronunciation: \ˈtan-jənt\
* Function: adjective
* Etymology: Latin tangent-, tangens, present participle of tangere to touch; perhaps akin to Old English thaccian to touch gently, stroke
* Date: 1594

1 a : meeting a curve or surface in a single point if a sufficiently small interval is considered <straight line tangent to a curve> b (1) : having a common tangent line at a point <tangent curves> (2) : having a common tangent plane at a point <tangent surfaces>
2 : diverging from an original purpose or course : irrelevant <tangent remarks>

i lol'd at the random smiley spam and at the random reply (to Mikkel?) from tetris for no reason at all...

i lol'd when i reached that post when reading this thread

YEAHYEAHYEAHYEAH You can be a ninja in this guild?

rofl.HEY look's like you got someone who dislikes the rules in your guild (and he isnt even in it)...!

LOLWhat are you going to do about the crest? I heard you were thinking to put a toast in it rofl

Give me your cape Sabre!

But fine, I'm the only asshole that has ever graced these forums.

Also, as a bonus, from the Best Of collection:

First off look at this to get the idea why im starting this topic:
the past

Reason why i'm making this come back from the past? It's simple, either the mod is 99% dead now or there is things that could be done to change it back and bring back some people and put this mod once again "playable" unlike now...


My point is, to overcome this situation there is only 2 ways to do so(3rd is just in case if no patch is to be released):
1st) Bring back the old lodagond series (xp nerf was sure a bad idea, it didn't even help keeping this mod alive and i dont care much about the rewards has long has the xp get's worth the time we spend playing this game);

2nd) Release a new patch with new content in it, i'm sure for a really long time with no releases for this mod it's either: dead or taking a real pain in the *ss to do it for the new dev... also if the mod is not getting any new patches, then why not just announce it to the community rather than keeping people with hope of something that's probably not comming and makes people bored of waiting and waste time for nothing, which makes things even worst to the community;

3rd)This is a suggestion from someone who discussed with me @ steam, this suggestion implements on there being released 2 different ms:c versions to see which one would be more populated (ms:c nerfed version and ms:c without nerfs version);

Now i do believe this community has to take action and either do something in order to keep this mod alive, otherwise it's going to become pointless for people who play/liked to play ms:c in the old days...



Note: Yes, i've red that link i posted from first to last post... if i ever knew this happened in the past i would have participated with the others to bring back what's supposed to motivate people to play this game. I also red all the answers made to those who did this that i'm bringing up once more. And i do believe most of the answers weren't qualified for the things they said which are true. I'm not going to bother explain myself much more than this, i know similiar things will be brought up and once again the community doesnt care what people think to keep this worth the time spent when played or whatever :|

Think whatever you want, the way i see things for ms:c now are pretty bad... no news about patches/ the nerfs totally messed up the game for most people. If you think it isnt worth the try to get the mod to become less than a pain in the *ss to play and become less boring has it is then i guess you shouldnt even bother coming here to discuss about this. Yet i already know people will read this and will either ignore/reply with the same answers they used before, the action that this community decides to take will either end up killing it or somehow the unespected, keeping it alive... so yeah i guess i'll be here waiting for replies worth the time to read.

I didn't say i was going to ignore the answers people used on the other topics, i meant to say that has in a indirect way to hemeriodius to stop making those kind of replies which i sure wont read has my point of making this "pop up" once more is to see what's happening to the game... If thothie trully is on the making of a new patch then there should be news (maybe twice a month, not to ask if it's close to release) about it to prevent for people to think that this is game is already dead. I mentioned the part about getting back to the old lodagond series in case if you guys didn't get my point which was "if there was no patch coming" then all i would ask would be to bring that part back and make things different from what they are now.

@Smash

i know bringing back the xp to lodagond would cause trouble but in my point of view i would prefer do something for the game to be left alive unlike just sit around and wait for something which the community does rarely mention about the patch lately. I have been watching the forums and haven't seen many news about this patch lately other than watching people posting from time to time on the maps section, i guess it shows a bit that it's still on the make but yet i'm not easily convinced without there being actual posts related to it.
yes i probably checked all the topics so far since late january 2009 (when i got back) untill now before that i wasn't active, yet it's been a time since any dev talked about it which makes people believe in stuff when they wait long enough without any news... other than the maps posts i remember thothie mentioning about new stuff being added to the patch, that was quite a "long" time ago. So i think i'm kind of outdated but im sure i didnt miss much before the time i got back.

 

[Sabre]

I saw no point to that, save for the hypocrisy of railing on someone for derailing a thread, while also derailing as well.

Just calm down. :roll:

 

[Borya]

Just calm down. :roll:

Fine, I'll put away the bourbon...

 

[Nova]

Dude, you quoted stuff from other topics. Let's keep it in this one.

Stop flaming and focus on ONE HANDED SPELLS.

 

[Tentadrilus]

I think that 1-handed spells would be available, but they should be a weaker variant of the real spell, i.e. you can only get Lesser Ice Shield in 1-handed format, rather than the normal Ice Shield.

P.S. Borya, correct sentence is (this is what I was getting at):
"Oh yeah, because you're the only douche bag allowed to post tangetically? ;P"

A+

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

One handed spells would be useful for newbies who want to use spellcasting while holding a torch (newbies who don't have glow yet, that is) but I don't really see the point next to that.

 

[Nova]

How about this -

One handed Frostbolt + Dagger/one handed sword/etc.

 

[Thothie]

Due to the way spells are received into active inventory, and the fact that we have no 1-handed spell casting model, I don't think it would be possible...

I had hoped for a major revamp of the spell system, however. I wanted to eliminate the slow down and prep-time (save for on the few major 1-shot spells), and aim for a more Diablo'esque action oriented spell system, in which manna regenerated rapidly, and hampered more your ability to sustain fire with rapid blasting spells, emanating from both hands in quick exchange, rather than the slow-and-go drain until you're dry system we currently have.

It woulda involved a lot of new spell scripts though - likely four or five variants of fire dart, fire ball, ice dart, poison, turn undead, of various strength, and a series of Earth spells. Likely these would all lead to spell casting being more exciting, better balanced, and faster to level...

But alas, it'd be a lot of script work, and I think Mikkel was my last hope for real aid on that anytime soon. Dridje has shown some interest in the script system, but he's where Mikkel was nearly a year ago, and neither he, nor anyone remaining on the team, is anywhere near the level where I can teach them the complex intricacies of client effects and weapon registration required to properly balance and revamp the spell repertoire.

(...and I'd rather have Dridje mapping, if at all possible - as mapping is much less likely to bring critique from the darker aspects of the community - scripters and coders always being the first to be driven away by said. I don't want to see MSC lose anymore devs.)

 

[kai]

Jeez Borya, you've really got it out for Zeus. :/

That was low to go out on a line like that quoting things from other topics and the such just to make yourself look like a giant dickhead.

Way to go.


As for a more ontopic note.

Yes, I think there really should be one handed spells. The reason is that most Battle Mages, or Warrior Mages (whatever you'd like to call them, they wield a melee weapon and use Magik. ) is that they can't kill everything with a fireball, y'know?

I think that if they had one free hand available, they could use their opposite to use some sort of a Magik dart ability, or a lesser variety of one of the spell schools. Like being able to fire a Frost Shard while using your sword, or Fire Dart, and last but not least, Poison (the weakest affliction spell.)

The reason you'd be able to use this is because of the fact that unlike their greater counter parts...
Blizzard > Frost Shard
Fire Ball > Fire Dart
Acid Bolt > Poison.

They're weaker, and easier to prepare with one hand, rather than their larger brethren which would require a more concentration, thus, you'd need both your hands.

I think Wisdom and Concentration should play a big part in this factor if one handed spells ever were introduced. It'd finally give them a bit more of a use rather than just adding mana to the player's reserve.

Also, the more Concentration & Wisdom, the greater your ability to use spells with one hand. Which means, somewhere along the lines, yes, if you had enough of the latter, you'd be able to cast Volcano, or Poison cloud using just one hand because your skilled enough to do so.

I could maybe see this being abused though, due to the fact some players just want to "Get in map, get out, and get reward, then repeat." I think if one handed spells are introduced, they need to be sensitive. Which means if an Orc b*tch slaps you upside the head whilst you're trying to cast you should get a: "You fail to prepare the spell." message.

Why? Well it's hard to concentrate while you're dying.

Also, being able to HEAL while still having your weapon out would be almost orgasmic. It'd make things much faster and edgy if you ask me. You'd still have your weapon available and be able to mend your wounds, but if that Orc gets a bit too close.. well then you can give him a whack or two with your sword to make him go away.

Also, I could see this making Fire Wall a much more used spell of the sort, because most people where often just too battle involved and didn't want to open their menu just to browse through and prepare the spell, because by the time you had done so, the enemy may have moved or your no longer able to use it.

Having it preset to your free hand, and when the button was pressed to cast, would allow a bit more use to those "rarely used" spells such as Fire Wall, or Ice Wall as well. I think that would be a very interesting feat, fighting with Orcs, and say, you become very wounded and require healing. Use your free hand to summon forth a wall of flame or ice, and that way with the Orcs occupied, you can heal or do as you like. Instead of having to "dig painfully through your spellbook while being attacked." to pick out the spell.

All and all, sounds like a good idea to me. I recommend it fully.

 

[Borya]

I think that if they had one free hand available, they could use their opposite to use some sort of a Magik dart ability, or a lesser variety of one of the spell schools. Like being able to fire a Frost Shard while using your sword, or Fire Dart, and last but not least, Poison.

While in some ways I could see that being useful to some lower level players, unless a bug involving XP getting messed up from right-clicking is fixed, it might turn out to be more detrimental to any players that aren't informed about the bug, as well as being cumbersome in general. Although that hopefully won't remain an issue for long.

Also, being able to HEAL while still having your weapon out would be almost orgasmic. It'd make things much faster and edgy if you ask me.

This is one that if not balanced properly, could potentially be game breaking, and the only way to balance it would be to keep at least a partial chance to fail when hit,make the mana cost prohibitively expensive, or have it heal for a very small amount (relative to normal rejuvenate) per casting. I honestly cannot think of a 'good' way that it could be implemented without trivializing the difficulty of certain encounters.

Having it preset to your free hand, and when the button was pressed to cast, would allow a bit more use to those "rarely used" spells such as Fire Wall, or Ice Wall as well.

Personally I've made pretty good use of Fire Wall in team situations, for 'crowd control' purposes. As for Ice Wall, as far as I know, any time when it would be useful, the enemy you want off your back will end up healing due to killing the walls, same goes for summons.

____

What I think would probably be of more use to the folks who would get the most use from one-handed spells, would be the introduction of more staves to the game, possibly with each having a special attack that functions similarly to a lower-end spell. Think along the lines of a snake staff, but for each of the sub-categories, and possibly with slightly better scaling (to make it less painful for those that prefer a more 'GROM SMASH' route to early spellcasting power). This, possibly in combination with the addition of some late-game spells (possibly even some non-stacking-non-xp-granting debuff spells), would help diversify the profession of spellcasting greatly.

Of course though, this by no means neglecting other areas of equipment, or even other areas of level range. The power of choice is powerful indeed.

Edit: Forgot a '/'

 

[Dejiko]

This is one that if not balanced properly, could potentially be game breaking, and the only way to balance it would be to keep at least a partial chance to fail when hit,make the mana cost prohibitively expensive, or have it heal for a very small amount (relative to normal rejuvenate) per casting. I honestly cannot think of a 'good' way that it could be implemented without trivializing the difficulty of certain encounters.

Rejuvenation already gets canceled if you take ANY damage. Making it only have a chance to fail would be a buff =/

And personally I don't like the idea of weaker 1-handed spells. There are already enough painfully weak spells you are expected to be able to level with <_< I'm looking at you, frostbolt.

 

[Borya]

Well, I was refering to a one-handed version, which, in the vision that Kai had, would probably not have the chance to break, or have a low enough one to be worth trying to use in the thick of battle. A one-handed version with the full break chance would be of limited use, due to the fact that parrying also breaks it, and by extension, I'm guessing shield-parrying as well.