SC: defence and summoning?

[The Man In Black]

How long have you been on these forums? Because it must have been less than 5 seconds to not see one of Thothie's rants about how, if anything, SC needs to be made harder to level. Seriously, search them out.

 

[WeissberV]

So how about instead of summoning an ally, you summon in a much more Final Fantasy like way. A monster comes out, performs an attack, then disappears.

Exacly what i say in "My ideas for MS:S" except that the summons would stay there do good damege but u can only have 1 on the map at a time
i like the style of ffx (final fantasy 10) summons fights like the player freezes by the side of ur summon and can't fight or get hurt and u select what u want ur summon to do by a list or something.

If any of u don't like this idea.... i have my dreams

 

[ReBoot]

About hardeness: SC is currently extremely boring/unfair on low levels. It may be overpowered on high levels, but still boring on low levels. And that is what makes it hard to level.

 

[Thothie]

That's kinda the point.

 

[ReBoot]

Why not bone the both skills and divide the sum by 5 (making SC easier to level), but weaken the high level spells a little? At least, SC would be a little more exciting then, without allowing the players to wipe everything.

 

[Thothie]

Why not bone the both skills and divide the sum by 5 (making SC easier to level), but weaken the high level spells a little? At least, SC would be a little more exciting then, without allowing the players to wipe everything.

I'd have to weaken the high level spells a LOT.

For starters all the AOE spells would have to be reduced to the same damage as the point-to-point spells, and their only advantage being that they are AOE. Certain other spells would just have to go entirely.

I've had some idears on this, but some points I r stuck on. I can't think of a way to fix Volcano, for instance, without removing it entirely.

 

[ReBoot]

Hey, if you want to do some mindstorming about spells, I'm ur man I have some experience in developing RPGs.
But I believe, you have your own plans. And my propose was rather a joke.

 

[Thothie]

Oh, I'm open to ideas. I'm not remaking the whole system from scratch, so I've no "plans" per say - and all the ideas that are raising their heads have, really, ugly heads.

 

[evilsquirrel]

why cant you just raise the required level for spells after taking those out >.<;;;;;;

 

[ReBoot]

That won't change anything. You'll still have to spent loads and loads of time with the beginning spells. And after a while, they help shit.

 

[evilsquirrel]

ReBoot...i'm just talking about eliminating the two utterly useless spells, and raising required levels...how does that make lower levels slower?!?!

 

[Thothie]

If they were useless they wouldn't be a problem - issues is, they are far too useful.

Plus volcano is kinda neat - I'd hate to have to remove it.

Raising all the spell level req is the same as nerfing them, as many people would lose their spells.

But if all the AOE spells were nerfed to the level of the direct fire spells, then I'd be more free to toss in a greater range of low level spells, as it wouldn't be such a huge deal if you hit the high levels sooner.

 

[evilsquirrel]

i was talking about eliminating protecting and summoning levels...and as for people losing thier spells, they'll like that better than all thier spells being nerfed to hell in damage, unless you plan on adding higher level spells to replace them.

 

[The Man In Black]

Why don't we just be careful what we say about raising levels on spells, kai?

Don't get me wrong, I'm supportive of the concept of raising the levels, but I predict the game having major problems with people using already learned tomes when they don't have the skill for them :roll:

 

[evilsquirrel]

why would that be a problem...? afaik, the spells themselves dont have restrictions, just learning them or activating the scroll.

testing is required!

 

[The Man In Black]

Exactly.. So if a person with level 15 SC learned a volcano tome before the switch, what would happen after the level of volcano was raised?

Would it let them use it?
Would it try to stop them?
Would it just crash because it's MSC and it hates complicated things?

 

[Thothie]

Already know from experience it lets them keep their memorized tomes.

Basically: If I don't nerf the upper spells, I can't add any new lower spells or spell catagories, and all new spells will be level 15 and up.

 

[evilsquirrel]

so long as you're actually adding those upper level spells, i've no problem with it..

 

[Thothie]

So we will always have magic "underleveled and overpowered" as you say.

 

[evilsquirrel]

well, if you'd just do the whole axing the two unlevelable ones so it levels each 5 levels, and raised the required level for each spell, except starter spells, by about 30% (rounding down in the event of a decimal under .8)

and just let people who've got the spells learned already keep them...its not like its a REALLYREALLYBADTHINGOMG, they'll get the levels eventually anyways.

 

[Blasto121]

ack all this talk about spell nerfing and modifying is scary!

Being one of the few wizards in this world, most of my power is derived from my spells. If they lost there current power my ability to fight would be thrown out the window.

Although if it was changed the way evilsquirrel, has been stating it. I would be able to level my weapon skills more often, raising my main level more often compared to now.

 

[Thothie]

well, if you'd just do the whole axing the two unlevelable ones so it levels each 5 levels, and raised the required level for each spell, except starter spells, by about 30% (rounding down in the event of a decimal under .

So yer saying raise the requirements for everything but Erratic Lightning, Fire dart, Ice bolt, Poison, and Rebuke Undead by 5 levels, and axe Volcano and Firewall? I somehow see that as counter-productive to the problem, it will make the gap between the powerful mages and the weak mages even wider. Plus I'd have to keep raising the requirements every time I added a new lower level spell.

Not to mention I see mass rebellion when everyone suddenly loses their Freezing Spheres, Volcanos, and Acid Bolts, etc.. Especially when they realize all the newer low end spells aren't going ot help the already powerful mages level faster one bit.

I was figuring if we nerfed the AOE spells, firewall (as discussed in other thread), and did *something* with volcano, I could add new lower level spells willy nilly, as it wouldn't risk generating the high end mages that are walking towers of destruction, but everyone would have a much larger spell repertoiré than they have now, much more quickly.

Really though, I think either way we're screwed.
Two options on placed on the table are both bad:
CONS either:
- Take away all the powerful mage's best spells for another 5 levels
or
- Nerf the mage's powerful spells
for PRO:
- Have more lower end spells to play with

and just let people who've got the spells learned already keep them...its not like its a REALLYREALLYBADTHINGOMG, they'll get the levels eventually anyways.

Because no one ever complains that SC is too hard and boring to level.

 

[Xeropace]

I personally like magic at the moment. If you want to use to the strong spell, then you put the time in to level SC. So they get rewarded for the effort.


Only thing I can think is add some more weapons/abilities (level 3 charges ?) To make melee people happy because of the mages power.

 

[ReBoot]

Idea: would it be possible to introduce some mid-level spells and raising the requirements for the top spells?
And making SC leveling faster by dividing the subskill sum by 5? At least, that will help casters to regenerate mana faster.

 

[Hush]

It might be a stupid idea but what about easily changing the magicschool "protection" and "summoning" into two new schools (like earth- and mindmagic or something else).
This will provide some new spells and will make sc-leveling a little more faster.
Think of spells like "stone-missile", "fear" or "mindcontrol"..... ok i stop dreaming