Would these ideas be possible for MS:C?

[Foreman]

First thing that came to mind was when I was playing Zelda: Ocarina of Time earlier today.. I thought "Hmm... Mastersword, what a great name for a sword, and that HL Mod is awesome too! Wait a minute, TEMPLES from Ocarina of Time IN MASTERSWORD WOULD BE MORE AWESOME!!!" So there we have idea one, possible Zelda temple remake maps, anyone interested?

Second, I know what I'm about to talk about would bring a HUGE change to the mod and take a very large amount of time to convert. I'm not sure if any of you have checked out the mod ESF (http://www.esforces.com), but it is a DBZ Half-Life mod which I have to say is not only the best DBZ game I've played to date, but it is also an AMAZING mod much like Mastersword. In ESF, somehow they figured out a way to scale down models in such a way that the game maps look MUCH bigger. I vaguely remember reading about 5-7 years ago that they trimmed the models to 1/4 (one-fourth) or so their previous size (since there is a limit on how large Half-Life maps could be, to "counter" it so to speak).

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, go download the mod and check out some of their maps. Some are small, yes... but some are HUGE.


EDIT: I'll include a link of some of the maps that were done for ESF fairly recently. (http://forum.esforces.com/media/m5-esf- ... ps-preview) To give an idea, the "huts" in the 2nd map (Namek) are to scale with player models in relation to the television show.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

possible Zelda temple remake maps, anyone interested?

No no no no.

Second, I know what I'm about to talk about would bring a HUGE change to the mod and take a very large amount of time to convert. I'm not sure if any of you have checked out the mod ESF (www.esforces.com), but it is a DBZ Half-Life mod which I have to say is not only the best DBZ game I've played to date, but it is also an AMAZING mod much like Mastersword. In ESF, somehow they figured out a way to scale down models in such a way that the game maps look MUCH bigger. I vaguely remember reading about 5-7 years ago that they trimmed the models to 1/4 (one-fourth) or so their previous size (since there is a limit on how large Half-Life maps could be, to "counter" it so to speak).

I don't see any reason why the entire game should have to convert to this (impossible at this point) standard. However, new maps could use this 'illusion' to great effect, I think.

 

[The Man In Black]

I don't know what the temples in Zelda are.

Entities are the main limitation of maps, not HL's cap. Making them "bigger" would require more entities to populate it and would make it far less stable.

 

[zeus9860]

Isn't shrinkspell going to work like that? Or it could work like the bear gods, everything is scaled to a bigger size, not sure which one is easier to mess with...

@ temples, i have no clue how they look like or how they work out... So i'm in between this suggestion, it all depends on what changes it would make and what negative aspects would crop up from that.

 

[MrJohnson]

If someone makes a good map inspired by a Zelda temple it would be considered to be implemented for sure I think.
Problem is: you need someone who makes that map first

Many good ideas fail at the point of realizing them into a real map/model/script.

 

[FER]

Im dont know about mapping but ive heard that besides map size theres a brush limit, which is a big problem with msc along with entities.

ESF has model based maps which are more detailed but that brings the problem with lighting in which a model either illuminates completely or not. Only alternative would be Xash3D special model lighting but thats another problem.

The layout of Zelda maps are room based dungeons, but this idea might not suit a multiplayer game where everyone rushes the map.
At this point I feel remaking maps from doom2 or Duke Nukem might suit MSC better

 

[Thothie]

At this point I feel remaking maps from doom2 or Duke Nukem might suit MSC better

There was a tool to convert Doom/Heretic maps into Quake II maps, and those are just a step away from being Half-Life maps, basically using the same BSP format. Heretic maps are actually pretty close to MSC theme, and we're already borrowing a lot of textures from both Doom and Heretic... Not that I don't shudder at the thought of porting entire maps.

I'm not sure if any of you have checked out the mod ESF

The scaling down models to make the world appear larger works okay for a low-entity game like ESF, where it's just a handful of players or bots, and a sh*tload of client effects, in a largely vague model-rendered world. Doesn't work so well for the detailed dungeon mazes of a game like MSC though.

VHLT offers a feature that actually allows you to build outside the map limit, though it has a great number of caveats, and I've not dared fiddled with it, given that it's unadvisable to even use the entirety of the space you normally have available. Most of the more complex and unstable maps we have barely make use of more than a quarter of that space.


As for Zelda, it'd actually be possible, if you kept to the same detail level those maps used (ie. almost none, being Nintendo 64 games). It'd just look damn ugly compared to most MSC maps, and you'd probably still have to break them into sections to keep the scale, lest we magic up some system to scale models down universally. Zelda also has the advantage that it's single player, and thus only has to keep track of a handful of monsters at a time, without propagating that same data to other players, who maybe anywhere else in the world, and activating more monsters in turn.


I've yet to fiddle with entirely model based mapping, but it has a number of issues - one being that the center of the models must be visible from every angle, and as FER said, the lighting on such models affects the entire model evenly. So, for instance, if a player with glow ran over the center of the model that made up the grasslands, the entire plain would light up, then go out as he passed by it.

 

[FER]

Problem is Zelda dungeons are designed for singleplayer, so remaking those would end up in a bunch of players speedrunning a map, maybe dungeons like in the zelda game Four Swords could work better but meh.