Summing and Protection bug

[UnknownUser]

you think kthis will ever be fixed? or is it ment to be borken cuz it if was fix ppl will get 15 sc faster?

 

[The Man In Black]

Thothie was only recently able to get the hard coding to compile again, so we are still uncertain if he is going to remove or fix them.

I would like Summoning to be fixed, but protection to be removed, personally.

 

[Thothie]

Leaning towards removing.

There's no way to make protection level without remaking the whole system. You have to kill to get XP.

With Summoning the issue is making an NPC pass XP back to the owner to his proper stat. (Tis why Volcano and Firewall level funny)

Lastly there's the issue that people are leveling SC FAR TOO QUICKLY - so if I add one or two more raisable categories, it will exasperate the problem in the extreme.

Thus, in the next client.dll patch, those two categories will likely vanish, but the XP formula will remain the same. Granted, I don't intend to do the client patch until January. For December, I'm thinking MS.DLL only.

 

[evilsquirrel]

thothie, in relation to other stats ...people are leveling sc FAR TOO SLOWLY...how many people do you see with the actual "Wizard" title, since thats the only one you can actually keep for an extended period...? one? two?


it takes much longer to level my SC (currently 16) than it does to level my swordsmanship (level 27) ...thats just wrong...

 

[Thothie]

SC doesnt raise any HP - tis the only reason I see few pure wizards (gotta be insane to try it). But everyone who's been playing this game more than two months can cast Volcano (SC 15), which is just, wrong.

I can get a character from scratch to SC 10 within 7 hours of gameplay, and that's including the time it took to get the HP up to 200 via other training.

 

[ceriux]

yea... SC is my main and getting to be ONLY thing i use... and since i dont play every single day for hrs... it doesnt level that fast expecially since i tend to like to play alone...


and does this mean i cant summon any more i just learned how to summon skellys its so kool ima be so sad...

 

[Thothie]

You'll still be able to summon. Summoning goes of raw SC - the Summoning stat on the list doesn't mean anything and just confuses people, atm.

Don't be comparing SC 15 to Sword 30 either - if SC raised at the rate sword did - you'd have access to every spell in the game and skeletons with 600hp within 16 hours of play, easily.

 

[The Man In Black]

Well Thothie, then why not raise the requirement for spells? Squirrel is right, it is a B*TCH to train SC once you're above 12 or so, and I can't even stay concentrated enough. It's bad enough that the only efficient way to train is Daragoth and that can get laggy with all the sprites and such.

I really wouldn't like to see Volcano raised, because I'm 15 and I don't want to lose it, but if it means gettings Summoning to work right and have some new fun stat to train, I'm all for it. That is, of course, assuming that you can get summoning working right =\

 

[Thothie]

I dun think I can... The meathod it is trying to use is very funky, and I'm not surprised it don't work. In addition, when I tie the summons to a stat in the intended manner, it also makes their damage rating uncontrollable (master's skill ends up affecting the skele's damage in strange and unpredictable ways). So it's two difficult issues to deal with... Then I have to rebalance all 20+ spells to factor in the leveling increase. Probably would also entail building another character from scratch for another 6 hours to see how far he gets.

SC, under the current scheme, should get very hard to level after 10, and damned near impossible after 15. You shouldn't specialize, period. Daragoth, also, not really the best place to train.

 

[The Man In Black]

Other than heras, it's the best place that I've found, and heras requires a lot of getting to a certain place >_>

But you have to remember one thing when it comes to training. We are veterans. We know what spells to get, where to get them, where to train, etc.

I can train a noob up pretty high in any stat just because I know the ropes.

 

[PBarnum]

you cant make summoning lvl and just make the xp needed higher?

can i see the code for the volcano or the SC in general?

here or in PM please

 

[ceriux]

while we're on spells i wanna see some nova like spells

 

[evilsquirrel]

yeh could make protection go under "the best defense is a good offence" and just make them all "bursts" of energy around the user, damaging anything and everything within a certain radius...

 

[Thothie]

Other than heras, it's the best place that I've found, and heras requires a lot of getting to a certain place >_>

But you have to remember one thing when it comes to training. We are veterans. We know what spells to get, where to get them, where to train, etc.

I can train a noob up pretty high in any stat just because I know the ropes.

I have to take n00bs being PL'd by vets when I do my balancing. Even if you know where everything is, and what raises XP the fastest (as I do - apparently better than you in the latter part, if yer XP farming on Heras/Daragoth) - you shouldn't be able to level that fast. James, on my server, pulled Level 10 SC in 2 days - and he's a total nub. Should take more like 2 months.

can i see the code for the volcano or the SC in general?

SC code bits are in a million different places, I'll have to hunt them down. The volcano's script is using the intended method, which is why it passes XP to the mystery stat, and raises the damage it does slowly. This becomes much more erratic with monsters for some reason.

For those who have the code, and want to look into it, hunt down "setexpstat" and "storeentity". Relevant script bits are as follows:
items/magic_hand_volcano.script

//EFFECT_SCRIPT = monsters/summon/summon_volcano 
//pos = found valid (X,Y,Z) coords
//EFFECT_DURATION = duration is calculated from concentration stat
//EFFECT_DMG = no longer used, base damage is 0, mystery stat raises
createnpc EFFECT_SCRIPT pos $get(ent_owner,id) EFFECT_DMG EFFECT_DURATION
setexpstat ent_lastcreated SPELL_STAT //SPELL_STAT = spellcasting.fire

monsters/summon/summon_volcano.script

{ game_dynamically_created //PARAM1 = summonerID
   storeentity ent_expowner PARAM1
}

 

[The Man In Black]

Meh, based on all monsters that I've fought, green spiders are the best thing to train on. Daragoth is just good because there are so many monsters in close proximity. Take about 2 minutes to hit the big group and change it back (Yeah, I farm exp. What of it? )

I'll look through the code and that another time, I'm tearing down my comp to go to a LAN event.

 

[Netrogor]

I have to take n00bs being PL'd by vets when I do my balancing. Even if you know where everything is, and what raises XP the fastest (as I do - apparently better than you in the latter part, if yer XP farming on Heras/Daragoth) - you shouldn't be able to level that fast. James, on my server, pulled Level 10 SC in 2 days - and he's a total nub. Should take more like 2 months.

MSC isn't an MMORPG!!! Two months is INSANE for only level ten SC!! Think about it; you want to make it THIRTY TIMES harder to leve up SC (two days to sixty?)!!! Why not just make it like five or six times harder, and that's still cruel in my eyes.

Also... if you remove summoning/protection (or both) will that mean they don't factor in the SC leveling equation anymore? So like... you would have more SC if your affliction, divination, fire, ice, and lightning were all above 15... yet SC in general was only 12 because of 1 & 1 on protection & summoning...
Well back on point, will it make it so that your SC level goes in accordance to the skills showing, or will the two unavailable skills still hurt your leveling chances?

Once you hit level 12 SC as well, it becomes a living hell to level up anymore
I mean... I reached level 13 SC about a month ago on my char Vivi, and STILL haven't reached the next lvl of 14!!! I have found it easier to level EVERY other stat up two or three levels within an hour, compared to the month wait on SC

 

[UnknownUser]

i think its essy to lvl sc to 15 as it is. you just have to know which is a good spot to train.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

I have to take n00bs being PL'd by vets when I do my balancing. Even if you know where everything is, and what raises XP the fastest (as I do - apparently better than you in the latter part, if yer XP farming on Heras/Daragoth) - you shouldn't be able to level that fast. James, on my server, pulled Level 10 SC in 2 days - and he's a total nub. Should take more like 2 months.

MSC isn't an MMORPG!!! Two months is INSANE for only level ten SC!! Think about it; you want to make it THIRTY TIMES harder to leve up SC (two days to sixty?)!!! Why not just make it like five or six times harder, and that's still cruel in my eyes.

I can only emphasize what Netrogor said. Two months to get to level ten in spell casting is absolutely insane. I can barely believe what I'm reading here. You can't be serious on this, Thothie. Two months. Hello?

 

[Thothie]

Suffice to say, two days is too quick, to be half way to the maximum spell level (there are no spells higher than SC 20 atm), one month, at least... It does seem to take about a year to get to SC 20 - but most of the people I have to test that with, only had fire and lightning for most of that year. The nubs level much quicker than the vets did.

We're talking character age here, mind you, not hour-to-hour playing.

Trying to balance the game out so ya need to have been playin around about a year to have it all. (ie. RED/Jester/Mamaru/J_M, etc levels, who have all been playing about a year.)

Granted, I don't intend to do much to make it harder at the moment. But I'm not going to make it easier. Certainly wont be seeing any new spells that give levels under SC10.

MSC is an MMORPG. (maybe not so much on the massive, but the rest of the letters apply...)

 

[Netrogor]

Suffice to say, two days is too quick, to be half way to the maximum spell level (there are no spells higher than SC 20 atm), one month, at least... It does seem to take about a year to get to SC 20 - but most of the people I have to test that with, only had fire and lightning for most of that year. The nubs level much quicker than the vets did.

We're talking character age here, mind you, not hour-to-hour playing.

Trying to balance the game out so ya need to have been playin around about a year to have it all. (ie. RED/Jester/Mamaru/J_M, etc levels, who have all been playing about a year.)

Granted, I don't intend to do much to make it harder at the moment. But I'm not going to make it easier. Certainly wont be seeing any new spells that give levels under SC10.

MSC is an MMORPG. (maybe not so much on the massive, but the rest of the letters apply...)

It's a third-party modification of an MMO (Half-Life). And one month is still insane. Perhaps two weeks; I think one month is reasonable only if you play for like half-an-hour-to-an-hour a day, but for people who are hard-core gamers (like me) who play for two-or-three hours a day, a month isn't fair. On weekends I've gone five hour stretches on MSC, questing with people, obtaining rare items, and trying to level up. Think about this...

One month, 30 days, average three hours a day, ninety gaming hours just to gain ten levels?? I ask that all skills become just as difficult to level up if you do this Thothie, and that monsters are nerfed & crippled to properly accommodate the lessened abilities of raising skills.

Also think about player-database; how many people will continue playing MSC if they have to spend about six months game time to even stand a chance against, oh-say, a Horror? Arrows & Melee weapons are virtually useless when faced with a horror; hard-core magic is needed there...

Then again, if you simply make the overall SC level take longer to raise (and allow things like fire, ice, and lightning to continue at current rate) people can still have moderately powerful spells.... that'd cope with taking longer to gain NEW spells...

This thought leads me to think... it could be wise to make two levels in each spellcasting category (i.e.-ice'n'fire) required to gain one level on SC (effectively doubling time/requirements for everything).... that way you could still gain power, without gaining new forms of power (get my drift?).

 

[evilsquirrel]

i like the idea of rasing the level of all spells (rebalancing) better...that way people can get magic-related titles without being weak...providing that parry is out of the picture....

 

[Netrogor]

i like the idea of rasing the level of all spells (rebalancing) better...that way people can get magic-related titles without being weak...providing that parry is out of the picture....

I swear if Parry is thrown out of the picture for titles, I will find the nearest squirrel there is and shoot it, smack it, and eat it. Your brethren and friends hall fall Foamy!!!

 

[evilsquirrel]

if parry titles are to stay in, parry should be a REAL skill that you have to TRAIN...not one that just goes up...as it stands, parry should be in the class of the secondary skills like "strength"...