Farming between helena and deralia

[panth0ur]

[one of many horrible money sploitz]

 

[The Man In Black]

There are many money exploits, which is why, after a point, money does nothing for you. We'll probably never plug the last of these exploits >_>

 

[Snow Wolf / RaZoR]

money does nothing for you

- Bloodstone ring
- name change
- other items

 

[Thothie]

Well, my solution would involve rigging all addstoreitem commands to disable buying of items. Make a new command call buystoreitem, and then make pain stakingly deliberate choices as to who will buy what, followed by the dreaded economy reset.

 

[Belmont]

Would be also nice if the rare weapons would actually be sold for a decent ammount of money...

 

[Mikkel]

money does nothing for you

- Bloodstone ring
- name change
- other items

Bloodstone ring is what, 500 gold?

you should've said UGA too..

 

[Durak]

I'm STILL trying to get enough for UGA. Level 30 and at 40k I think.

 

[Thothie]

...and that's the ONLY thing I've ever heard of anyone having to save for. It was made with this broken economy in mind. If there was a reset, it would get reduced, of course.

 

[Durak]

...and that's the ONLY thing I've ever heard of anyone having to save for. It was made with this broken economy in mind. If there was a reset, it would get reduced, of course.

I wouldn't mind a reset so much. It's not like I'll ever afford it at this rate.

 

[The Man In Black]

It's pointless to do a reset if there are still exploits like this. Otherwise, he would have done it already ;-)

 

[!=-PhoeniX-=!]

You could use money like Runescape has it ^^

Buy rares for a really big price. But wouldn't that take the fun out of grinding maps?

 

[Durak]

But wouldn't that take the fun out of grinding maps?

That's pretty hillarious. I did the_keep 10 times today and we never saw the orion or nova blade guy.

 

[Snow Wolf / RaZoR]

But wouldn't that take the fun out of grinding maps?

That's pretty hillarious. I did the_keep 10 times today and we never saw the orion or nova blade guy.

you need about 4 - 8 players for those... the rest is just luck

 

[Durak]

But wouldn't that take the fun out of grinding maps?

That's pretty hillarious. I did the_keep 10 times today and we never saw the orion or nova blade guy.

you need about 4 - 8 players for those... the rest is just luck

We had five players. We only got gib guy/flamelick/darkmaul. I just dislike farming a map 100 times to get a weapon and then another 400 times for everyone else participating to get it. It really kills the map. I suppose there's not too much you can do with a map that has a ton of different bosses that can spawn.

 

[Thothie]

Yeah, can't get every weapon in the game in a week. Sucks that.

 

[The Man In Black]

Yeah, can't get every weapon in the game in a week. Sucks that.

Shh! J-M will hear you.

>_>

<_<

 

[Thothie]

Meh, watching two poor 400hp n00bs try to take out Demonicus on their own right now. They've been at it for like 45 mintues, and even if they do pull it off, the likelhood of them getting something is next to nill.

I need to figure a way to make it more clear that Bosses are designed to take out 4 players of their own level. New repeating help-tip maybe.

 

[Durak]

Yeah, can't get every weapon in the game in a week. Sucks that.

And yet most people do. Every level 28-32 person I've seen in the past week (probably 6 or so) has phoenix/gold armor as well as hoarfrost, nova, orion, stab helm, gib, etc.

*Cue rant with hopefully no spoilers*

The thing is that you need to have someone give you one of the near best equipment before you can do any of the mid-high level maps. The jump seems to large. foutpost is an exception because of the layout/style (little elemental effects and you can run heal) as you can usually grind it down with brute force but it doesn't yield anything game breaking and even then it would take dozens of attempts. I can't see anyone legitimately beating snow/the_keep without help from someone with good items. Even a group of five level 25 people can't beat it with mediocre equipment (say they have flamelick/fire gaunts/wooden bow/skullblade/sir geric). If you can't beat a map with a number of people (min. 3) with equipment found before it then that's pretty depressing.

The jump is from progressively stronger attack/defense to this whole new resistance thing. You go from maps where you take and deal normal damage to getting raped instantly by stun/elemental damage. You get stunned/frozen/thunder drunk as well as the increased damage. You either barely get any hits in and die or you hit it for a tiny bit and die healing it. Switching over from an older style map to a newer one is like decreasing your hp by 400. As far as I know none of the lower end equipment offers any stun/elemental resistance (albeit snakeskin which is attainable at least). Add on to the fact that at the same time you get a jump to huge elemental damaging weapons/orion.

Anyway, my point is that a group with more people doesn't really help because you'll end up fighting forever, and dying hundreds of times, to get through these maps and then coming up to something that heals on death and you lose and get frustrated. New people can't even see the monster's health to see if they're making progress. If you do ever manage to beat the map by sheer luck or a high level person you can get nothing/little. If you do get a rune shield, then you aren't going to beat significantly faster/easier and you need to do it another 10-15 times so other people can get one, not to mention the other eq.

The real statement should be: Yeah, you can't get anyone to play for more than a week unless someone teaches them the game, gives them the best eq, grinds maps tons of times for them, and finds a server to do all this on. Sucks that.

Edit: I've been enjoying the game for the past four years (on and off as my friends keep quitting and I keep struggling to get them back) and I'm not just trying to be a jerk. I started playing years before MS:C. The new additions are great and interesting. I find that it's harder to get anywhere now. It's not a progressive step-up. It's more like a mountain has been created and new players need to be mountain climbers or be shown an elevator to get past it. I'm simply trying to help the transition from the old to the new as I don't find it works out. Two of my friends that I have to nag to play used to play 1.35 with me and we played it through untwinked/clueless once and again multiple times afterwards. They have a hard time playing the game now because they get frustrated with every single map and we're level 20, 30, 32 as well as other 30s that join us. It's really annoying and sure I could accept the stability helms or other eq people want to give me but we want to play the game through *properly*. Thanks if you read this far.

 

[Shurik3n]

When snow came out we were able to beat it with dark armor, cal maces and tork blades... though we were low-mid 30s iirc not 25s. So unless its gotten a big buff since then it should still be doable for people who don't have the newest items.

 

[Durak]

When snow came out we were able to beat it with dark armor, cal maces and tork blades... though we were low-mid 30s iirc not 25s. So unless its gotten a big buff since then it should still be doable for people who don't have the newest items.

I think it did get a buff actually. I played it once or twice since...november I believe. The elementals now seem to be super assy as you can't lit storm nearly as cheaply and the boss seems to be stronger. The two annoying parts got a lot harder.

 

[FER]

Nah, nothing changed, they are as strong as always, only difference being that some ice skellies can shoot multiple frosbolts.

elemental were alway hard, no different

Reaver didnt change (only difference is the frozen lake which was unfrozen back then)

EDIT: also ice bone lord now deals fall damage on death, but only that

And im refeering to all the changes since 2006

EDIT2: actually its easier now, thanks to kicking, pots and maybe something else

 

[Durak]

Nah, nothing changed, they are as strong as always, only difference being that some ice skellies can shoot multiple frosbolts.

elemental were alway hard, no different

Reaver didnt change (only difference is the frozen lake which was unfrozen back then)

EDIT: also ice bone lord now deals fall damage on death, but only that

And im refeering to all the changes since 2006

EDIT2: actually its easier now, thanks to kicking, pots and maybe something else

Lightning storm isn't as abusable anymore though and that's how everyone got past the elementals and reavers (the lower level people). I don't know of all the places to get pots since I haven't bothered re-searching all the past levels (and I doubt most people do. I figure Thothie knows this better than us) but I get them from high level map chests. I also don't whore them as much as other people who use them for everything so maybe that could be a big difference. However, unless they're in some of the lower level chests I doubt lower level adventurers will whore them either.

If you're saying that ice bone lord now heals when people fall kill themselves then that is a SIGNIFICANT buff. Regardless, stunning is always useful. I figure the main thing is lit storm as orion shouldn't be had yet with my attempted argument. I don't think that snow is easy but some playtesting would be good (and Thothie does that so I'll just speak from experience). I figure I should try beating it again and testing it out even with my equipment but I might only have some time this weekend and then I'd have to get people together to play it again and we already played snow to death in oct/nov so getting friends to play it would be neigh impossible and bad for my cause.

 

[FER]

Ice lord damages when it dies in his 1st and 2nd form, but doesnt heal (by fall damage i mean the same as when the big bears do when they die and you are near)

Back in 2006 we didnt use LS that much since it sucked (probably more than now), because of that almost everyone (90% players in a ms_snow run) used weapons (elementals didnt exist back then, not even gold axe) or greater holy arrow (they were pretty rare back then).

Great axe (when damage was half as good), PFCK and Ice Blade were my main weapons

EDIT: also helmets had no stun resist at all, and the spawn chances didnt increase with more players (same spawn chances with just one players nowadays)

Still, we saw lots of players carrying GIBs

 

[Thothie]

The thing is that you need to have someone give you one of the near best equipment before you can do any of the mid-high level maps.

Makes ya wonder where it was those weapons came from to begin with.

Most of us here were killing these bosses without any of the spells and weapons you have access to now.

to get through these maps and then coming up to something that heals on death and you lose and get frustrated

While there does have to be some way to make sure that bosses that overpower people, well, overpower people, rather than just get pecked to death, I’m kinda with you here. The current system discourages newbs from trying to help out. Should point out a few things before I continue to relent on that point though:

• When we were first killing these bosses, creatures got their health instantly restored to 100%, regardless of who, or what, they killed
• After I first got ahold of that, I nerfed it to restore 50%, and made it players only
• It is now double the HP of the player killed, to a max of 25% of the creature’s total HP, whichever is less.

So again, we had it a HELL of a lot harder than you did, and we still got those weapons.

That aside…

I do not like the system as it does discourage large groups of players, that are hard to organize, all participating in battle… So… I r considering:

• Removing the regen on kill entirely
• Doubling the death penalty
• Giving all monsters flagged as boss a 10%hp/minute regen rate

This way weak players didn’t continuously throw themselves at bosses they are not supposed to be able to kill. It still discourages senseless deaths at the hands of bosses (for parry training, for instance). And it removes the stigma against new players who are “feeding” the boss.

There'll be exceptions of course. Ice Queen Stage III and Calrian/Soul Eaters will still regen 100%, cuz that's kinda their schtict. I may also rig it so this only applies to bosses, and everything else uses the old method, so low level players don't start trying to peck, say, elite bandits to death.

Any thoughts/flames?

 

[Xeropace]

I haven't got much time so I'll just comment on one thing. OH GOD YES, to removing the 2x Player HP regen thing... The amount of times I've seen a boss go down to red, just to have someone die to it three times in a row (Not aimed at anyone who was playing Lodagond-1 with me yesterday, honest) and give it full HP.

Or when something really unlucky happens and you lose all your HP in seconds and they heal from that.