Torches

Should torches glow at max glow level and slowly burn out until they fade to the normal light level?


  • Total voters
    4

TheOysterHippopotami

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DarkTide
Sep 6, 2009
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Make torches glow at max glow level and slowly burn out until they fade to the normal light level they have always emitted, please.
 

zeus9860

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Blades of Urdual
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The True Followers of the Lost
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Feb 28, 2008
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lolwut
While at it, make felewyn light worthwhile the item count. :rolleyes:

Anyways, that torch suggestion could actually be a good idea if such thing was implemented as a game mechanic in a map, where you have to rely in light sources from the map to maintain your safety as you move around in dark areas that pretty much consume the player. This is one mechanic that alot of games have been using lately. Extinguing your own light sources or even nerfing them temporarly so you have to rely on smaller light sources to get around the area, a good example of this is metro exodus, anyone that has played and beat this game knows what i am talking about. This would even be a better approach if the played had to use fire spells to light up a torch once and then be quick about the decision making. Of course, this whole thing would work for like the first 3 runs of the map, after that it would pretty much become adaptable. Only way to counter this was to have random generated paths and perhaps critters upon map loading, which adds an extra few runs to the counter before everyone and their mother is adapted to all paths and all critter spawns.
 

Thothie

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Apr 8, 2005
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Make torches glow at max glow level and slowly burn out until they fade to the normal light level they have always emitted, please.
Might be doable, hopefully without risking the sticky client side effect getting even stickier. (Though I could hack at that while I was in there). Would be very low priority though - torches get defunct right quick.

While at it, make felewyn light worthwhile the item count.
It's supposed to be there as a free starter item to, at best, substitute for low level glow. Could put in a stronger one for enough gold elsewhere - be complicated to prevent stacking and the resulting dyn light lag though.

torch suggestion could actually be a good idea if such thing was implemented as a game mechanic in a map
An unlit torch NPC with no AI, that lit when a player holding a torch came near (or was struck by fire damage), would be doable, possibly with submodels to choose from (might need to make a new entity for it to show up in Hammer for ease of placement). Maybe make it fire a map trigger, so the mapper could determine the exact light emitted by the thing (optionally, as that would eat additional thinking entities, if they used a "torch like" pulsing/flickering light - give an option to set color/radius/model in the addparams I guess).

Could technically be done with the current entities and triggers - as we do have an event trigger that searches for specific items and fires map trigger on detection, used a few times in gertenheld_lighthouse, and a smattering of other places.
 

Cyclophammer

New Adventurer
The Dragonknights
Mar 12, 2011
36
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It's supposed to be there as a free starter item to, at best, substitute for low level glow. Could put in a stronger one for enough gold elsewhere - be complicated to prevent stacking and the resulting dyn light lag though.
Can't F Light just scale based on SC?
 

Thothie

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Much harder to turn off than regular glow, and I get enough complaints from mappers about glow ruining their maps. ;) As it is, at least it just provides a "minimum light level" so you don't bump into walls, that doesn't mess with aesthetics much.

Dun think it would work well with the current adjustable glow system either, lest maybe I added an activation toggle on the player menu. All SC based glow goes through there, at the moment. So it'd end up being "activate glow through player menu, instead of spell", and some haphazard method to explain that to a potentially new player. At which point, might as well just replace it with the spell, rather than add yet another layer of confusion, but SC1 glow is much weaker than the Felewyn Ring.
 

Kanta

Old Skool Apostle
Alpha Tester
Jan 24, 2013
587
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ms_swamp
Leave glow and torches how they are.

Mappers can turn players glows off now in defined areas. if they desire.
 

Cyclophammer

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The Dragonknights
Mar 12, 2011
36
4
I don't care about torches. But Glow is propably one of the top 3 spells, when it comes to being useful. Especially with how fast leveling is, F Light will never be useful and simply doesn't warrant it taking up an inventory space. I think the item could do better, but hey lack of manpower yada yada yada.
 

Thothie

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What would you suggest, other than making it identical to glow, but harder to cancel, while also retaining what little usefulness it still has as a newbie item?

Manpower might reduce the complexity of suggestions we can take up, and increase the time until they come to fruition, but if ya got something for the poor ring, by all means...
 

MS:C community

Old Skool Apostle
Alpha Tester
Jul 7, 2011
477
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I read this:
Make torches glow at max glow level and slowly burn out
...and then I was like: Y

But then I read this:
until they fade to the normal light level they have always emitted
...and then I was like: N

Torches right now:
They burn forever. So much for realism.

Torches per your suggestion:
They burn forever, but in the beginning they burn even brighter.

Right now I'm like: ????
 

Cyclophammer

New Adventurer
The Dragonknights
Mar 12, 2011
36
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Make it a flash light lel. There is simply no usefulness, by the time a player acquired one, their own SC glow has already exceeded F Light. Either comeplety rework the thing or put it in a casket.
 

Thothie

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Personally, I use it, as I like a secondary glow that lets me maneuver through those brief too-dark areas in some maps without having to activate or scale the full nova-glow. So I still find it useful at later levels, in trinket fashion - if it was much brighter, and not adjustable as it is now, I'd probably just go with the glow all the time, and pick a dim color.

And it's fun to show a new player to, and hand them something that'll be useful for their first couple of levels.

Might be better if it was available in Edana (or Thornlands/Esewers1), rather than Gatecity, if it was well hidden.

Could give it a little extra something - like, maybe 5% undead/demon damage resist? Or maybe just make it sell, once, for a bundle, or trade for a glow tome.

They burn forever. So much for realism.
That'd be the sorta crippling "realism" I don't like to add, outside of a survival game. Though, if you wanna be really realistic, any halfway decent torch is going to stay lit longer than you're apt to be playing at a go.
 

Cyclophammer

New Adventurer
The Dragonknights
Mar 12, 2011
36
4
Could give it a little extra something - like, maybe 5% undead/demon damage resist? Or maybe just make it sell, once, for a bundle, or trade for a glow tome.
I wouldn't add anything on it. considering that it is already conflicting with casting glow. The glow tome is also purchasable from the very beginning so I don't see how "potentially" finding an item later on, should reward a super early easily accessible item.
That'd be the sorta crippling "realism" I don't like to add, outside of a survival game. Though, if you wanna be really realistic, any halfway decent torch is going to stay lit longer than you're apt to be playing at a go.
If there is a way to disable glow on maps. Mappers could hand out a different "Torch Item" that doesn't last forever. Would promote one handed weaponry + team coordination. Not sure if any mapper would be interested in that though.
 

Thothie

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If there is a way to disable glow on maps. Mappers could hand out a different "Torch Item" that doesn't last forever. Would promote one handed weaponry + team coordination. Not sure if any mapper would be interested in that though.
Could make a variant of the darkness effect that allows torches to work, but for a shorter time, but, come to think of it... I don't think the current effect does block torches. By the time yer high enough level to hit the first of those, you aren't hauling torches around anymore.

I wouldn't add anything on it. considering that it is already conflicting with casting glow. The glow tome is also purchasable from the very beginning so I don't see how "potentially" finding an item later on, should reward a super early easily accessible item.
Doesn't currently conflict with casting glow - they are on separate systems, so it just gives a perpetual minimum light. If we made it SC based, it'd inherit the glow spell's properties, making it less useful if your SC is <5 or so (and again, harder to turn off, as well as on, as we'd also have to add an activator to make it work that way).

Should explain it's a bit of a legacy item. Glow didn't work right initially, then it burned out quickly, and didn't scale up with SC until quite some time later. It also used to take a lot longer to level SC high enough to make it brighter than the Felewyn Ring (first guy to reach SC20 took nearly two years to do so), thus it was useful for longer. ...All changes made via suggestions from players, some of which are posting this very thread.

Don't think every item needs to be useful forever (even if I personally find it useful, as is), but since the Glow Tome is a bit pricey, turning it in for a free one wouldn't be a bad idea - might lead to some disappointment when they find their initial Glow Spell is so much dimmer, if they've not gotten their SC up yet, but the quest can be repeated, so... I'll put it on the low priority task list (ie. probably after next patch - too close to spend time on that just now). Lest someone has another idea for the ring.
 

zeus9860

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Blades of Urdual
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The True Followers of the Lost
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Feb 28, 2008
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lolwut
Just turn the ring into a cosmetic or something like that. If it has to be a glow based function, why not give it a cosmetic touch to the ice shield? If you hold the ring, whatever glow colour you have applied on your glow spell, it will reflect into your ice shield and change the colour accordingly for example. Other than this, the only good change the ring could have in terms of glow is to have the glow spell attached to it but then that would make the glow spell pointless. If this was achieved through a quest, then perhaps it would be worthwhile, but then people would be butthurt with the "i'm sick and tired of seeing glow auras everywhere". The ring is due past its utility date, which was like back in 2008 or earlier. There are plenty other items in the same position as this one, most importantly the lower level ones in the first 15 levels of most of the skills.

Anyways, i was mostly joking about making the ring worthwhile, i only touched upon this item because of the topic at hand. There are better and more important things to focus on i believe. The only worthwhile thing on this thread so far might be the suggestion i gave about the torches being set on fire with fire and dark areas that suppress the light and consume the player, this could be something worthwhile exploring for future mapping ideas. This is the only purpose to make any sort of change to the torches in the game, other than this, i see little to no reason.
 
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