I'm seriously considering making a spiritual successor.

Xeropace

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Hi guys, long time no speak. You may or may not recognise me but I've been around since the original Master Sword days. Back when your character corrupted every 5 minutes from putting bags in bags in sheaths in bags and only a few maps even existed. Apparently I signed up here Aug 2005, which was a long time ago.

Once MS:C came about and things improved drastically, I carried on playing with a friend (Skillasaur, he ended up making The Wall) on LAN, until finally hitting the wall of the two of us not being able to progress/get loot, so we eventually joined everyone on FuzNet, where we played on and off for years. However, whilst I could still fire up and play the game now, let's be honest, it's pretty old, glitchy and imbalanced now. I mean zero disrespect when I say that as I have the utmost respect for MS:C, it's a massive achievement for all the various developers involved.

Sadly, there doesn't seem to have been much progress with the Source version. I don't know the specifics and if it's even still a mod for Half-Life 2 or something else, if it is still a mod for HL2 then that too is shortly going to be left behind. I've always dreamed about remaking or making a game just like MS:C, I even wished to help out with MS:C but I was too inexperienced, especially with C and the giant code base that had grown over the years. I believe I am now at the point where I can make a crack at something serious.

Since playing MS:C, I've been off to University, learned to program, graduated with a First Class Honors in Computer Science, and am now a professional Software Engineer. Got two years of hobbyist experience making games with XNA and have since been experimenting in Unity for about 6 months. Unity C# will most likely be my engine of choice, it has a lot of features already implemented that are difficult to get right and I have little motivation to create a custom full fledged engine (I've tried, it's too much work. You either make an engine or you make a game). I've already written my own reusable modules for Unity, to handle things like path finding, entity management, and more.

So I thought I'd let you guys know of my plans. Obviously I could create something totally separated from this but using it as inspiration, or I could try to remake it, name, assets, etc all included. This is you guys potentially come in. If there is enough interest here then I will try to include everyone, otherwise I will carry on as a solo project, making a FPS RPG with vague MMO aspects, though I have little server/client programming experience so multi-player is an area I will have to spend time learning before I start.

I am also unsure on the legality side of this. Who owns the rights to MS:C and it's content? Thothie? The content creators? Someone else?

In terms of my skills, I am proficient in the following areas:

- Software design
- C#
- PHP
- JavaScript
- MySQL / Database design
- Source Control management

In terms of my skills, I am lacking in the following areas:

- Modelling / Rigging / Animating
- Texturing
- Sounds
- Music

Whilst I can do all four of them myself, I am not very good. Anyone who is interested and/or believes they can help, please leave a post. I'd rather not do it all by PMs as I want it to be transparent to everyone.

I have no progress to show so far as I have not started on this project. I would like to know what others think first. I'm a little unsure if it's even a good idea to pursue, mainly as I cannot meet the quality, in terms of gameplay and graphics that things like this can promise.

Thanks for your time and I hope everyone's doing well in their lives.
 

zeus9860

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I hate to tell you this but... why put effort into creating a new game from scratch when you could potentially help finishing this one project and then work towards a new project that could follow the events of master sword continued.

MSS is one of those things i don't have much hope to see fully released to the public. If that will ever happen (which will be a long time no doubt), most likely that the mod will die rather quick, this i have no doubt. The only reason ms:c is still alive at times is the huge amount of content that got dished out already to keep people busy and the unusual content patches we get, that bring some lifespan back into the game. MSS will have a harder time to adapt unless the first public release is aimed with a crapton of content that will keep people busy/entertained for a few months untill a new update rolls out. And we know that is very unlikely to happen.


I still hate the fact that people decided to split up between two sides, it's like what some people around here say: "Never start a new project untill your current project is guaranteed to be finished", this pretty much makes the resources for both sides to be spread thin and slowly make progress towards a final goal.

Things should have been organized properly, it's like people want to rush out MSS when it's supposed to come after MS:C, we don't see gaming companies releasing half a game of lore and then releasing the sequel with already new lore planned to the events after MS:C's lore.

I do like the fact that you posted this but, if i was in your position and wanted to assume a project of this kind, related to ms:c. I would work on pre-events of ms:c after finishing the main project, MSS is a sequel that might never happen unless people organize themselves and focus 1 goal at a time.

Goals should be:
-MS:C (replace harmfull content that could prevent it from being on steam);
-MS:C (greenlight);
-MS:C (finish the lore);
-Next game project (Continue MSS?);
-Finish new project;
-Start your own project(A prequel perhaps? Entirelly up to you. It was just an example).

Master sword (prequel? even though it's the original game...) -> Master Sword: Continued (main lore?) -> Master Sword Source (30 years later lore? it's what i was told about ms:s)
 

Thothie

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If you wanna do Master Sword: Unity, that's fine with me, more power to ya. I'll even provide support in terms of materials, lore, what not, that we have in stock.

However...

I'd *much* rather you went over to Orochi and worked on MSS. Or, barring that, helped us out over here at MSC (I swear, if we had one other half-way skilled scripter, we'd be back to doing patches every month - and your skillset is a good match.)

But if Unity is really all you're comfortable working with, by all means. If you gather a significantly sized team, or show some real progress, I'll even get RKS to set aside some forum and file space (maybe even a SVN - but no Githubs, bad things happen with Githubs).

(As far as legality is concerned, there is none, for we have no legal copyright claims - but if you wanna play nice: for MSC, the official head is MiB, while Kuroneko holds the grandfather rights, and RKS handles the web stuff and primary servers - but if you go to any of those three, they'll no doubt send you to yours truly. MSS, on the other hand, is currently headed by Orochi.)
 

Xeropace

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Hi Zeus, Thothie, good to see you still around :) Zeus - The reason I want to put effort in to it is because, as far as I know, both MS:C and MS:S are kinda floating around aimlessly and I'd like there to be clear progress as to what needs doing and what's been done. Until today, I assumed MS:S was a project that was theorized but never started. Maybe I just want more info on the situation or maybe I want more control, I don't know.

If you think my work would be more appreciated on MS:S then I'd be more than happy to take a look, only I cannot promise any help as I've never worked with the Source Engine before. I don't even know what language/scripting it uses. I've got a bit of Blender skills but mainly low poly/hand painted textures, so I'd need to know what kinda feel MSS is going for!

As for MS:C, Thothie, is it still a giant mash of C code? Whilst I'm now at a stage where I could probably understand it, again I am unsure of what would be required, perhaps you could elaborate and I'll get back to you. I do have actual C experience now. Does it have a project that uses something like Visual Studio?

I do have my own website and SVN server somewhere (I can use both SVN and Git but for some reason prefer SVN), though they are fairly unused. My website literally has no pages and my SVN just has my current toying around with Unity (See here for a random dump of my stuff, though progress has hit a halt lately due to unforeseen RL issues), so if I do get anywhere, I'll gladly take you up on that offer.

Thanks for all the info. I'll hold off doing anything major for now but I'll probably play around in Unity still, just to brainstorm some potential ideas/solutions.
 

Thothie

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MSC has a very specific task list, but, as we're a community built mod, we kinda have to take what we can when it becomes available, and priorities are set by whatever we have in hand and can get done quickest. Still, even for that, we've a task list - just not the one we wish we had.

Yes, the code is still a mash of C++ by a dozen different coders. However, while there is some important stuff we need code side, most of the action (and thus most of the stuff we need done) happens script side, and that's an entirely custom language (albeit, a fairly simple one). Sadly, there's only one person still around that's bothered to learn to be proficient with the script system, and that's yours truly. Wouldn't be so bad, if folks worked with the extensive array of what we already have (and they used to work with a whole lot less) - but everyone wants that "special snowflake" map, which requires extensive scripting, so things are flowing slower than molasses in winter, due to lack of scripter manpower.

The Source SDK, like MSC's Goldsrc, is C++ based. The MSS code, however, is still in its formative years, and I don't think it's had more than maybe two or three coders in it thus far, and has remained under the same central management for most of that time, so I'm sure it is positively pristine by comparison. Much as with Goldsrc, you don't have direct access to the engine, but the two SDK bases are very similar, and even share a lot of common code.

Additionally, MSS's core mechanics have not been put in stone, thus far, so you have an opportunity for creative input here, unlike MSC, where you kinda have to work with what ya got.

I'd kinda like to see MSS move to another engine, given the unstable, ever-updating nature of Source (barring a Greenlight), but as most MSC developers learned under Goldsrc, Source is the most similar "modern" engine available, both in terms of code and materials (maps, models, etc.), and thus the most obvious place for them to migrate.
 

TheOysterHippopotami

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As someone who still creates content for msc (maps and music) I haven't given up. If we could have another coder, we could get this game back on track. I strongly suggest you direct your efforts towards MSC rather than MSS or a new project.

(As far as legality is concerned, there is none, for we have no legal copyright claims - but if you wanna play nice: for MSC, the official head is MiB, while Kuroneko holds the grandfather rights, and RKS handles the web stuff and primary servers - but if you go to any of those three, they'll no doubt send you to yours truly. MSS, on the other hand, is currently headed by Orochi.)
I'm pretty sure Lanethans lore and music is under copyright protection, even if he has never sought it out directly.
 

Thothie

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You can claim artistic license, and sue under that, with music - but having a copyright costs money and requires you to register with the state.
 

Xeropace

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Okay, maybe I jumped the gun assuming MS:C/S were dying off :p I don't want to tread on anybody's feet.

If I wanted to help with MS:C as a coder, where would I begin? Is there some material I can use to learn (especially if there's a custom scripting language)?
 

zeus9860

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Xeropace should totally focus on learning Ms:c stuff and help it get back on track! :p

What Oyster said is pretty much my point from the very beginning, Ms:c should be the main focus right now and then think about other projects later.

I do believe ms:c would be far ahead near the endline if everyone teamed up and worked in one game at a time instead of spreading. Reason why i have little hope of seeing MSS coming to the surface anytime soon. The more people working on something, more of a chance of newcomers coming to the forums and work on something for the community aswell. At least that's what i would think when joining the forums back in the days when patches rolled out every 1 or 2 months, completly showing a constant care for a mod, that alone would be enough to attract people into making content again.

This is the reason why i think Xeropace is crucial right now for this mod, Ms:c isn't completly dead yet and MSS is well... not in good conditions to be a main focus, unlike ms:c. :wink:
 

Thothie

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Xeropace said:
Okay, maybe I jumped the gun assuming MS:C/S were dying off :p I don't want to tread on anybody's feet.

If I wanted to help with MS:C as a coder, where would I begin? Is there some material I can use to learn (especially if there's a custom scripting language)?
Well, if you wanna do code, you need VS2003... Which, obviously, cannot be legally obtained, so I won't ask where you got it from. If ya have that, give me a heads up. I've regretted handing out the code before, but times be desperate.

Scripting, on the other hand, works with any ol text editor, and under the test_scripts system, doesn't require compiling. The test_scripts system doesn't let you make items or weapons, and has a few other limitations, but if you can create something (just about anything really), I can see about getting you the more comprehensive system.

Sadly, the documentation is somewhat limited. The rar included with MSC (in msc/test_scripts) is also a bit dated, so here's a newer one:
http://www.thothie.com/msc_dev4/test_sc ... 014_09.rar
Provides a few dozen real world examples, and what documentation there is. Basic instructions and explanation of which documents have what is in the "!test_scripts_go_here.txt"

Long story short, you add "ms_dev_mode 1" to your listenserver.cfg (which prevents saving), stick your scripts in the test_scripts folder, and run the test_scripts map. There's a "dungeon master" sorta NPC there that will help you with the rest, spawn your mobs, and warn you if something's misconfigured.

If you need anything else, including a particular script source, do not hesitate to ask.


...but I'm not so sure you jumped the gun with MSS, considering how long this thread has been going and Orochi hasn't made an appearance yet. MSC's existence is always at risk, as the Valve guys are always tinkering with the engine (albeit, not as often as they tinker with the Source engine.) We're, for instance, currently suffering from a random mass character delete bug as a result. I'm always amazed we've held on as long as we have, but still, to secure the game's future, there's really gotta be a spin off on a more modern engine.
 

ner0sense

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1. Get MSC Greenlit to attract more programmers
2. Finish it
3. Once Half Life 3 comes out start fresh with a brand new engine!

Just an idea :mrgreen:
 

zeus9860

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ner0sense said:
1. Get MSC Greenlit to attract more programmers
2. Finish it
3. Once Half Life 3 comes out start fresh with a brand new engine!

Just an idea :mrgreen:
I think i suggested this before already, though i do think the progress MSS has so far, shouldn't go to waste, but instead delayed.
 

Xeropace

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I don't want to be harsh as I love MS:C myself but there's no chance of MS:C getting Greenlit/Kickstarted, it's just too old and out dated. Whilst the graphics and quirks hold a special charm to us, other people are going to think it looks bad. Not to mention MS:C I imagine is still riddled with bugs that have been present from day 1, things we have little/no control over (no free edicts!). To finish MS:C then MS:S, then start on a new project would take way too long, the game would fall behind the times, which makes it more and more difficult to develop and find people to develop for it.

People don't want to work on mods as much as they used too as the indie scene has really taken off and there is so much free software available now to make your own whole game. I don't know how much progress MS:S has made, I've only seen a video of some maps and models. That's only a fraction of what would need to go in to the game, things like coding, scripting and the server architecture, have they been done? Are they easily implemented in to source? etc. Things like models, animations and sounds can all be moved between engines, so it would be possible to reuse them as opposed to them being wasted.

I have taken a look at some scripts for MS:C, they seem to make sense to me. I didn't get much time to check anything else. I have been researching how to achieve various things in Unity though and I wish to attempt to recreate something like Edana (even just a basic layout) to get a feel for it in Unity. However, I won't be able to do that for some time as I'm working on the server architecture as it's going to affect the underlying code. I need to create an account system, an authentication server, character databases, character API, master server, game servers, etc. So there's a lot of work/research to be done. I have however done such things before, just not in Unity, so I've already got the auth server working.
 

TheOysterHippopotami

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I don't want to be harsh as I love MS:C myself but there's no chance of MS:C getting Greenlit/Kickstarted
This is just not true. Many half-life mods have been greenlit, some of which are even worse than msc. The real barrier to getting greenlit is all of our stolen content from games like WoW and Morrowind.

I think it's completely unrealistic to talk about MasterSword on a new engine, or even MSS. It's obvious MSS will never be released due to leadership problems and while I'd love to see MS ported to a new engine, that is going to be exponentially more work and I know from experience you are going to have a very tough time finding people who want to work on your idea. While there are lots of people who want to make their own games, most only want to work on their ideas and won't be interested in helping anyone else out (but, of course, they need help themselves!). I know I personally wouldn't help until you had a very convincing amount of work completed, and that's likely to take years.

...but MSC is already here, and it already has people working on it, albeit not very many. It's admittedly in a completely disorganized and unbalanced state, but teamwork only seems viable with MSC. I actually think this mod can not only be revived with a competent development team, but that it could easily become the most popular half-life mod.
 

Thothie

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Several other Gldsrc games have gotten das Green Light, even a few with stolen materials like ours, including Svencoop, Cry of Fear, and a few other lesser titles - like HL: Before (and I don't think I'm at risk of any immodesty when I say we're better than "Half-Life: Before").

Valve doesn't really seem to care, as long as you shell out your hundred dollars. ...Not that we're not making an effort, having recently replaced all our copyrighted music and a few models.


You are right in that the age of mods is grinding to a halt, and it's getting more and more difficult to assemble crew.

As for the MSS project progress, the good news is that server architecture is more or less included in the SDK. The bad news, is that while various media materials (even the maps) are more or less transferable, the quality difference between the two engines is so staggering, that Orochi ain't gonna do it. (And TBH, the only reason I'd do it, would be if it was the only way to keep the game alive, due to some fatal Goldsrc update.) I suppose the OC music is portable - though you'd probably wanna tweak it a bit. In anycase, materials wise, I dunno what all they have aside from a few maps, and code wise, Orochi is a bit mysterious about that as well, though I think they at least have Drigien's inventory system.
 

TheOysterHippopotami

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I dunno what all they have aside from a few maps, and code wise, Orochi is a bit mysterious about that as well, though I think they at least have Drigien's inventory system.
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say MSS has leadership problems. A decade with almost nothing to show and he's still being "mysterious" about what they actually have, still being exclusive about who they associate with and still being elitist about the "quality" they will accept for their never-to-be-released mod.

You'd have to be nuts to waste your time on a project like that, even if I do really want to play it some day.
 

ceriux

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part of the problem with msc and getting people to play is the fact that it just accepts any old content. your content needs to match and be appealing to get someone to play it.

esp now days. were everyone judges a game by how "awesome" its graphics are compared to other games. even minecrafts style/textures match each other.
 

TheOysterHippopotami

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ceriux said:
part of the problem with msc and getting people to play is the fact that it just accepts any old content. your content needs to match and be appealing to get someone to play it.

esp now days. were everyone judges a game by how "awesome" its graphics are compared to other games. even minecrafts style/textures match each other.
This is true, and MSC is one of the worst examples I've ever seen of this. I'm not excusing MSC's complete and utter lack of quality control but a line needs to be drawn somewhere when a project so obviously has no hope of being finished. A certain degree of inconsistency is certainly better than no MSS, which is what we're going to get with the kind of development policy that MSS has.
 

Thothie

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ceriux said:
part of the problem with msc and getting people to play is the fact that it just accepts any old content. your content needs to match and be appealing to get someone to play it.

esp now days. were everyone judges a game by how "awesome" its graphics are compared to other games. even minecrafts style/textures match each other.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, I did recently reject a Hall of Deralia that was made up of nothing but large 1024 cubed boxes linked by 256 wide bare hallways, where it was clear the mapper in question wasn't even trying...

But it's more or less impossible to maintain visual consistency as soon as you get more than one content artist in any position - and, of course, MSC has had hundreds.

Even MSS is suffering from this already. Dangerous Pass, for instance, while pretty, is of radically different design than any of the other maps, with its surreal fluffly stylized trees, set next to Rickler's more generic photorealistic ones. I'm sure the differences between the design of The Calrian Ruins would be equally striking, if not for it being the only indoor map.

townsegment4fix0009.jpg
vs
edana_a03b0004.jpg

But it's difficult to avoid in a large project, especially if it's ongoing, and you don't have a modeler/mapper head laying down very specific design parameters, or forcibly altering materials to a specific theme.

In MSC's case it is of course worse, as it's an ever expanding community built mod spanning over a decade plus.

(Though, in the case of Minecraft's texture matching each other, that's pretty simple, as the texture packages are always by one guy, and the models are all blox.)
 

zeus9860

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Xeropace said:
I don't want to be harsh as I love MS:C myself but there's no chance of MS:C getting Greenlit/Kickstarted, it's just too old and out dated. Whilst the graphics and quirks hold a special charm to us, other people are going to think it looks bad.
First, people who will think the graphics in an old engine free mod think that look like more than likely don't diserve to even play classic games. Afterall, goldsource material is not for everyone, i don't expect kids from COD to come over and say "OMG THIS GAME IS BEAUTIFULL", in games like this, what should matter the most of the storyline dedication along with the gameplay changes made to the game. This is a medieval-rpg style based free mod for half life, one of the few mods still going and most likely one of the last to be completly forgotten if it get's greenlit.

Ms:c will have a much better chance at survival when it gets greenlit, it's like it will get revived again, and the way it dies out will be completly based in the dev team by then. At one point they will hit a progress wall and things need to be left behind, but i do feel like ms:c isn't still hitting said progress wall. Which means it has potential ahead of it.

I hate to indirectly advertise other mods but earth special forces remake, is a good example as to why i believe this sort of logic you dished out is BS (not trying to be rude/harsh on you, just saying my opinion). They have a semi-dedicated team working on the remake, and it's a goldsource remake. I've been tracking progress in both ms:c and esf for years now, i used to track sven co-op for sometime but i lost interest rather fast. Point here is, you should never give up for the minimal reasons you create within your own mind. ESF is a good example to this... Why would a team put alot of dedication into remaking a mod for HL when the game is rather old and outdated, like you said. They do believe it has potential, probably more potential than a source remake because at the end of the day, source might be better graphical wise, but there is no way it will beat old goldsource's gameplay addiction. Main reason why i put goldsource over source at any given time. Source is less pleasing imo, not bad, but doesn't come up with the cherry on top in my book.


As for unity, i got no clue how it works, but again... you said yourself as time goes on, it gets harder to develop things and to find people to put effort into that aswell. This alone should be the reason as to why you shouldn't focus on finding a dev team and start yet another project that might never see the day of light (hint towards MSS's most likely future). I would say it's easier to join in than start from scratch alone and find people to join in your cause. Join in, work on things as you see fit, discuss with other devs about plans, get recognized for your dedication and effort, people you work with and get to know will see this and might just want to follow you wherever you go after this.
 

Orochi

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Just thought I'd chip in after a long silence. Most of you will probably loathe me after this, but oh well...

It's time to face facts. I don't have the time and effort to spend on it anymore. I did once, but I foolishly squandered that time in my life and now it's gone, and the reality of working life has set in. When I come home from work all I want to do is unwind; coding is the furthest thing from my mind, and so I end up playing other games instead of working on MS:S. Coding a game takes effort, while playing one takes comparatively little.

But to blame it all on having to change lifestyle isn't telling the whole truth. Even when I did have the time and effort, I was a bad leader and a bad worker when it came to devoting time to MS:S. Back in 2009-2010, I had leadership dropped in my lap when first Brian abandoned the project, then Supersoup stepped down. I'm ashamed to say I frittered away countless nights goofing off playing games when I should have been making MS:S or finding people who would. I'm lazy by nature; not having any incentive to work on it in the form of graphical content didn't help but it certainly was not the only reason. In hindsight, I should have let someone more capable take over sooner, but much like someone who doesn't know they have a problem, I kept goofing off while making hollow promises. Now I don't have any time at all and have wasted your time in the process.

If you want to know the state of the mod, here it is: We have my tinkerings trying to polish up the engine a bit and get some sort of character data system in place, and the internal alpha from before Brian left. In truth I don't know why I kept up the hype as long as I did. I guess part of me wanted to keep the dream alive. The fact is, we're in stasis with little progress and it's largely me at fault. If you want to blame someone, blame me. I hope that's some small amount of vindication for the people who are angry about the state of MS:S and at me personally.

So do it, make your own sequel to MS:C. Do what I failed to do, and you'll even get to run it your way, like the power-mad Killer Game Master I know many of you would be. Thothie now has stewardship of MS:S, for whatever that's worth. He's clearly better suited to marshaling people to get to work than I am and will probably make a decent sequel eventually. If there's hope for the future of this mod, it's in his hands. I'm truly sorry to have wasted everyone's time.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be off to let the shame and guilt of this haunt me for the rest of my days.
 

TheOysterHippopotami

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I'm ashamed to say I frittered away countless nights goofing off playing games
We're all going to die with this as our biggest regret. :(

I hope that's some small amount of vindication for the people who are angry about the state of MS:S and at me personally.
For the record, while I may be a bit frustrated with the status of MSS (and MSC, too), I'm not angry with you for failing to accomplish an obviously difficult task. I'm grateful that you contributed to MSS (and MSC) and who knows, maybe someday it will still be released.

I'm truly sorry to have wasted everyone's time.
If there's anything everyone in this community has in common, it's that we're all time wasters. Except maybe Thothie.
 

Lucifer Majiskus

Active Adventurer
Sons of Babel
Alpha Tester
Mar 9, 2009
1,165
29
23
An igloo far up North.
Orochi said:
Just thought I'd chip in after a long silence. Most of you will probably loathe me after this, but oh well...

It's time to face facts. I don't have the time and effort to spend on it anymore. I did once, but I foolishly squandered that time in my life and now it's gone, and the reality of working life has set in. When I come home from work all I want to do is unwind; coding is the furthest thing from my mind, and so I end up playing other games instead of working on MS:S. Coding a game takes effort, while playing one takes comparatively little.

But to blame it all on having to change lifestyle isn't telling the whole truth. Even when I did have the time and effort, I was a bad leader and a bad worker when it came to devoting time to MS:S. Back in 2009-2010, I had leadership dropped in my lap when first Brian abandoned the project, then Supersoup stepped down. I'm ashamed to say I frittered away countless nights goofing off playing games when I should have been making MS:S or finding people who would. I'm lazy by nature; not having any incentive to work on it in the form of graphical content didn't help but it certainly was not the only reason. In hindsight, I should have let someone more capable take over sooner, but much like someone who doesn't know they have a problem, I kept goofing off while making hollow promises. Now I don't have any time at all and have wasted your time in the process.

If you want to know the state of the mod, here it is: We have my tinkerings trying to polish up the engine a bit and get some sort of character data system in place, and the internal alpha from before Brian left. In truth I don't know why I kept up the hype as long as I did. I guess part of me wanted to keep the dream alive. The fact is, we're in stasis with little progress and it's largely me at fault. If you want to blame someone, blame me. I hope that's some small amount of vindication for the people who are angry about the state of MS:S and at me personally.

So do it, make your own sequel to MS:C. Do what I failed to do, and you'll even get to run it your way, like the power-mad Killer Game Master I know many of you would be. Thothie now has stewardship of MS:S, for whatever that's worth. He's clearly better suited to marshaling people to get to work than I am and will probably make a decent sequel eventually. If there's hope for the future of this mod, it's in his hands. I'm truly sorry to have wasted everyone's time.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be off to let the shame and guilt of this haunt me for the rest of my days.
Don't feel bad, this isn't news to any of us! :roll:
 

Orochi

New Adventurer
MSS Developer
MSC Developer
Jun 12, 2006
795
0
30
On a Bus
You can can the sarcasm, Lucifer. I'm already limping away with my tail between my legs, no need to rub salt in the wound.

Making MS:S is a herculean task to be sure, but I failed at being a leader and doing the things necessary to delegate that responsibility to someone else when I knew I couldn't do it alone. It's incredibly shameful to admit and I will probably get crucified around here but what else can I do?

My biggest regret is to have wasted everyone's time like this. That's why I wrote this; I noticed this thread and realized "They're right, I'm rubbish at this" and promptly wrote up the above post. I'm already making arrangements to get everything over to Thothie and have myself removed from the Dev group. I don't expect forgiveness seeing as how I essentially got peoples' hopes up with little to show for it, I just hope they let me bow out in peace. I already feel like the biggest snake oil salesman in the universe.

MS:S may be made but it won't be by me.
 
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