Diminished stun

Kanta

Old Skool Apostle
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Jan 24, 2013
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ms_swamp
Hi, I'm here to talk about one of the most infuriating things in the game. I can't think of one instance where someone has died while stunned and felt like they lost in a fair way. Stun is a broken, extremely obnoxious mechanic. I'm not voting for stun to be removed from the game or anything, the stun effected is used is conservatively in some monster. Off the top of my head I can think of shadahar warriors which stun your for a few seconds tops, I think this is okay. It can create a bit of a tense moment when fighting but the sad truth is that most enemies with stun have horrendously long durations. A quick tense interruption in a battle is alright, having the player's control taken away from them for TEN to FIFTEEN seconds or more is not okay. Some enemies attack very fast and do not telegraph special moves to players in a way that early level mobs will teach them to recognize, like bandits making a sound just like a player would when charging up a special attack accompanied with a bit of a longer swing time. The mob that first come to mind is the mummies, they have an extremely fast attack speed and do not communicate when they are using a stun attack in anyway. No charge up, no special animation, no sound, nothing. Some enemies with long stuns will use another stun attack IMMEDIATELY after the first one has ended, locking up the for essentially twice as long on some occasions. If you try and fight cold based enemies that can stun you without and kind of magic resistance, may god have mercy on your soul.

So I know what you're thinking, going back and fixing all of the mobs stun attacks and tweaking them to be more fair is too much of a monumental task. So I suggest a "diminishing" effect on stuns. When your character becomes stunned this will start a 30 second or minute long timer, that if they recover from their stun and are hit with another stun attack will make it so the next stun attack's duration is halved or even reduced by 75%. If they are hit during this timer and receive a lowered stun time, the time is reset so for instance they have another minute of stun protection. But this third time, if they are hit with a stun attack regardless of their current resistance level they are completely immune. The timer will not reset after this hit and will return the player to taking stun attacks normally until it happens again.

It's also important that going into the future any new enemies should be designed to very clearly telegraph their stun attacks with special animations or sound effects so that players can avoid them before they happen. They should also not be allowed to use stun attacks as frequently as right as the first stun duration is ending.

Thanks for reading.
 

Thothie

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Actually wanted to replace the stun effect completely, but the alternatives haven't work out (especially since Windows has been trying to depreciate OpenGL since Vista, and thus we can't use the system that handles Bloom to, for instance, give you a stereoscopic visual stun effect).

Also attempted to work out a system where your attacks are instead slowed, much like the monster's are when they are stunned, but couldn't come up with a system that couldn't easily be exploited out of.

I've also wanted to create a generic telegraphing attack system by using the classic red textured zone of death, but not figured that one out either.

Elemental effects have a 10 second cooldown before they can be applied again, I could rig stun to do something similar, and make sure no stuns are over 5 seconds.
 

Kanta

Old Skool Apostle
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Jan 24, 2013
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ms_swamp
Didn't know about the elemental effect cooldown, this would be much appreciated if it were applied to stunning. As for screen effects, I don't think that's a good idea considering how awful that poison overlay is. Having the game make weird effects on your screen might give some players eyestrain(especially on some maps with flickering lights and flashing overlays...)

Whats the red texture of death?
 

greatguys1

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MSC Developer
Warriors of the North
Apr 20, 2013
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Yes
Elemental effects only have the cooldown if it is the same type of effect being applied, i think including stuns but ive gotta check again

But I do agree, some stuns are too long but i think stuns should also be either slow move, or no attack. Not both at the same time.
 

Thothie

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Whats the red texture of death?
Used in a lotta games.. Lemme try to find an example...


^ Basically that - red texture appears on the area to be affected, and ya got maybe two seconds to GTFO (or block). In this guy's case the red texture lingers if the effect does.

A few of the newer mobs in the current release telegraph with lights, but it doesn't work very well, and really only works in certain areas, as a red light in a hallway, for instance, would just light the whole thing up.
 

Thothie

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But I do agree, some stuns are too long but i think stuns should also be either slow move, or no attack. Not both at the same time.
If I could rig up something code side, to where it'd read a var from the player and always adjust their attack and attack delay/length accordingly, it might be possible to split regular stun to slow you down and heavy stun to slow your attacks. It'd also make things like swiftblade potions less buggy. Attacks are handled mostly client side though, so I'm not sure how to go about it.

Video also reminds me how badly I want to add a system where you have ~30 secs to scoop up a downed player before they actually dies and loses their potion effects (with option to suicide instead of waiting, maybe by holding +use).
 

MS:C community

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Jul 7, 2011
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As a player who has complained about the outrageously long stun of (in particular) Torkalath Elves years and years ago, I completely agree with the first post.
 

Kanta

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Jan 24, 2013
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Ah something I forgot to mention was certain enemies that give fake stun effect. I'm pretty sure its only stone skeletons and soul eaters, but they fling you away and it completely locks up all movement for a few seconds without actually being a stun. I think making the different heavy/light stuns affect different things would be a nice change.

As for the red warning texture/lights, I think a unique animation or sound effect is perfectly sufficient for telegraphing special attacks for enemies considering how glitchy and unreliable lighting effects can be in this game.
 

Thothie

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As a player who has complained about the outrageously long stun of (in particular) Torkalath Elves years and years ago, I completely agree with the first post.
Well, the good news is I don't think any of the Torkies stun for more than 5 secs anymore - on the other hand, they can do all sorts of other nasty things now.

As for the red warning texture/lights, I think a unique animation or sound effect is perfectly sufficient for telegraphing special attacks for enemies considering how glitchy and unreliable lighting effects can be in this game.
Yeah lights aren't gonna cut it save for certain bosses in certain rooms and the like - it'd just be nice to have something universal without requiring additional animations that you could tack onto whatever. I could simply scale a semi-transparent red circle, but that only works when the ground is absolutely even. I know it's possible, code side, to draw polys dynamically and stretch them over something (ESF does this), but far beyond anything I could cook up (even with the source for ESF, which I have).
 

TheOysterHippopotami

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I'm stunned Thothie has accepted this suggestion so quickly.

it'd just be nice to have something universal without requiring additional animations that you could tack onto whatever. I could simply scale a semi-transparent red circle, but that only works when the ground is absolutely even. I know it's possible, code side, to draw polys dynamically and stretch them over something (ESF does this), but far beyond anything I could cook up (even with the source for ESF, which I have).
please don't turn this game into a korean mmo
 

Fegged

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The Dragonknights
Aug 12, 2010
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What about the effect on the cleicert skele's?

You could rig the design of that into something close to the red circle, would be the easiest fix in my eyes
 

Dehoth

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Dec 1, 2013
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Elemental effects only have the cooldown if it is the same type of effect being applied, i think including stuns but ive gotta check again

But I do agree, some stuns are too long but i think stuns should also be either slow move, or no attack. Not both at the same time
While talking about diminished effects; the frostwolf(Woof) in kroush can keep you frozen solid with no problem at all. So I'm guessing the elemental-cooldown starts the moment you are frozen instead of breaking out of the frozen-effect.

The freeze is nice, but being frozen solid twice in a row is not.
 
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