Counter-strikeOnline weapons and bosses in MSC

Zombie_Source · Sep 12, 2014

Hello!
CSO has some good weapons and bosses which can be used in MSC.
For example:
Bosses

Weapons

If you like that idea, i can make this weapons on MSC hands. Also i can make some quest maps with these bosses

Thothie · Sep 12, 2014

Hrmm... Interesting, though they'll need poly reduction and fur wont translate well, or bumpmaps at all... I've had issues translating Source animations to Goldsrc - and since my Source SDK is busted, I'm not sure if I can do such conversions at all anymore.

...But more importantly, are these yours to give?

(Not that we don't rip some stuff, but with mods, we always ask - retailers, on the other hand, don't have a choice in the matter.)

zeus9860 · Sep 12, 2014

Nice selection of models you got there! I hope these can be used with no sort of issues related to stolen content.

Zombie_Source · Sep 13, 2014

Thothie said:
they'll need poly reduction

Nope, game engine is the same so poly number is OK.

Thothie said:
(Not that we don't rip some stuff, but with mods, we always ask - retailers, on the other hand, don't have a choice in the matter.)

Almost everything in this mod is stolen, but MSC isnt commercial project, so you can do anything what you want. CSO isnt mod, its commercial project, so you dont need to ask them to use their models. Anyway, i'll make there weapons on MSC hands for weapon replacement.

2 CSO bosses: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qsfetpp6zuq47qm/2bosses.rar?dl=0
Also if you want i can give you some models from DOTA:2 (converted for GS ofcource)

Zombie_Source · Sep 13, 2014

if you are afraid to use CSO content, dont worry, many mods uses it last time. For example this: http://www.moddb.com/mods/hazard

Thothie · Sep 13, 2014

Gah, they looked so good, I assumed they were Source...

They look like retail material though, but I've no idea from where.

Do you at least know where they came from, or must I inquire at the CSO website?

When it comes to retail models, there's the additional problem that we're *trying* to get a Greenlight, so we can get a copy of the core engine that's stable, rather than one that's constantly decaying under our feet, and that requires all our work be either OC or attributable with permission.

Zombie_Source · Sep 14, 2014

Thothie said:
Do you at least know where they came from, or must I inquire at the CSO website?

Counter-strike online (Nexon team)
Website: csonline.nexon.com

I think you wont get steam greenlight... Even The specialists cant get it...

zeus9860 · Sep 14, 2014

Zombie_Source said:
I think you wont get steam greenlight... Even The specialists cant get it...

There is alot of shit indie games getting greenlight and make it to the store, Ms:c has an equal chance as long as it gets rid of stolen content first. look at Cry of Fear for an example on how mods can successfully make it to the store.

Even if it fails, it's worth a shot. Ms:c community has it is right now is dead and hardly gets any activity, so it needs to be thrown out into the middle of the jungle and hope for the best of it. Heck, even the simple fact of putting it on greenlight and basically telling people some of the background story (no drama included), should get some people to come to the community and try work on the mod themselves, which i believe is one of the goals here, along with bringing more people in.

Zombie_Source · Sep 14, 2014

zeus9860 said:
There is alot of **** indie games getting greenlight and make it to the store, Ms:c has an equal chance as long as it gets rid of stolen content first. look at Cry of Fear for an example on how mods can successfully make it to the store.

There is one difference: all these indie games are new, and COF has good graphics. Anyway, hope you'll get Greenlight

zeus9860 · Sep 14, 2014

Zombie_Source said:
There is one difference: all these indie games are new, and COF has good graphics. Anyway, hope you'll get Greenlight

I don't mean to insult you by this but that is some stupid logic right there. Games that are put into greenlight are not always "new", alot of things on greenlight are from other platforms and whatnot. Cry of Fear point of view, also not entirelly logical given that some games that get greenlight aren't even close to having good graphic quality.

This mod, with a properly created background (again no drama), a worthwhile and interisting gameplay video and perhaps a trailer showing "a work in progress". Now if you were to say something like "Getting greenlight might not help the game that much", this could be true but we will never know untill we give it a shot, right?

It's like, keeping the same path won't do crap to this mod's community and it will inevitably die off unless we try something new.

Again, i don't plan on doing any harm on you with what i just said, i might sound a bit harsh but it's the reality of things. In the beginning i was against making this mod more open for the public, it was like needle in a haystack, couldn't be found so easily but it wasn't so hard either. Which is something i enjoyed in this mod while it lasted.

Thothie · Sep 15, 2014

Well, Svencoop got a greenlight - as did this piece of sh*t and this piece of sh*t, so it isn't out of the question.

On the other hand, Svencoop has a lot more "illicitly borrowed" material than we do, so... Hrmmm....

If some mapper specifically requests one of these bosses, I'm willing to modify the model and script it up, however, I think the two mappers currently working on stuff are both firmly in the "OC only plzktnx" camp.

Zombie_Source · Sep 15, 2014

zeus9860 said:
Now if you were to say something like "Getting greenlight might not help the game that much", this could be true but we will never know untill we give it a shot, right?

No, I think getting greenlight 100% will help with new players. Thats why I hope this game get Greenlight. But this mod looks too crappy specially on the first maps (edana, thornlands and all forest maps). Best way to make this game looks cool is creating it in toon style, also I wanted to replace all monsters with monsters from RPG games, but you want to use only yours models...

Thothie · Sep 15, 2014

Zombie_Source said:
Best way to make this game looks cool is creating it in toon style, also I wanted to replace all monsters with monsters from RPG games, but you want to use only yours models...

That's a lotta of models. Hell, we've got more mob models than some retail MMO's.

I'm all for borrowing models from dead mods, especially when we can get the artist's permission, but ripping from retail is a bit dicier - even if the community in general is more offended by it than I personally am (and even I prefer a dead retail mod). Finding a single consistent source to replace all our models with, would be downright impossible, I'm sure.

They are pretty though. Looking at the .nar's - do love the animations on envy_neid - so tempting... I wouldn't feel too bad about ripping animations, but... No... Must resist... (Nevermind all the rigging work.)

Zombie_Source · Sep 15, 2014

Okay, so I can help you only with creating maps, or... what if I make same weapons as in CSO, but mesh and anims will be my, and only texture will be from CSO?

Thothie said:
I'm all for borrowing models from dead mods, especially when we can get the artist's permission, but ripping from retail is a bit dicier - even if the community in general is more offended by it than I personally am (and even I prefer a dead retail mod). Finding a single consistent source to replace all our models with, would be downright impossible, I'm sure.

What about music? Morrowind, Diablo2... It isnt dead mods.

Monika's_BFFEx0256 · Sep 15, 2014

There is no reason to rip music from anything else. We could easily have the entirety of the game full of original musical scores, even if they are repeated throughout some maps.

Thothie · Sep 15, 2014

Zombie_Source said:
What about music? Morrowind, Diablo2... It isnt dead mods.

Music is much worse, as there are spiders running on the net looking for pirated music specifically (a few sophisticated enough to search a 7z embedded in an executable - such as our installer). That, and yes, we have tons of OC music, and tons of good, yet free, music to choose from, and tons of music, already in the game.

Additionally, it isn't something we can't expand the world without - but thankfully, we don't have to. (And we already replaced the music from Morrowind and Diablo 2 in the alpha.)

Zombie_Source said:
Okay, so I can help you only with creating maps, or... what if I make same weapons as in CSO, but mesh and anims will be my, and only texture will be from CSO?

Eh... But like I said, if you make a map, and want a CSO boss, I'm not above setting it up for you, if only for the sake of having another map to work with (can also host maps externally, to avoid any issues - which is kinda what Sven does). As for textures - you'll have an easier time retexturing weapons than taking an existing texture and sticking it on a new mesh - not sure which was is more of a violation though - less of the original data probably survives in a converted mesh, than in a converted texture, but dubious either way. Sadly, due to the way MSC is setup, we can't externalize weapons - unless your intent is to simply mod the appearance of an existing one.

Zombie_Source · Dec 9, 2014

Any news about steam greenlight?
I have good idea. If you cant add high quality content to the game, make custom campaigns like in SvenCoop, and everyone might be able to add any models in their custom maps.
And some words about "stolen" content. You still have music from D2 here, also I found elves from TES3. So you already took too much from other games and cant take more or what?

Thothie · Dec 9, 2014

Zombie_Source said:
Any news about steam greenlight?

Not asked RKS in awhile - he might be waiting for us to get a cleaner (copyright-wise) full installer. I don't think we'll have all our copyright issues fixed in the next installer, but a lot of them, and likely all the music.

Zombie_Source said:
I have good idea. If you cant add high quality content to the game, make custom campaigns like in SvenCoop, and everyone might be able to add any models in their custom maps.

The post right above yours said:
I'm not above setting it up for you, if only for the sake of having another map to work with (can also host maps externally, to avoid any issues - which is kinda what Sven does)

Mr. LOL TL;DR said:
And some words about "stolen" content. You still have music from D2 here, also I found elves from TES3. So you already took too much from other games and cant take more or what?

The post right above yours also said:
Additionally, it isn't something we can't expand the world without - but thankfully, we don't have to. (And we already replaced the music

Think we have replacements for all the hard copyrighted music, and some of the dubious ones.

If you know of a specific track not mentioned in that thread please alert us asap.

Everquest · Nov 11, 2016

Zombie_Source said:
Okay, so I can help you only with creating maps, or... what if I make same weapons as in CSO, but mesh and anims will be my, and only texture will be from CSO?

Thothie said:
Eh... But like I said, if you make a map, and want a CSO boss, I'm not above setting it up for you, if only for the sake of having another map to work with (can also host maps externally, to avoid any issues - which is kinda what Sven does).

How would MSC do that externally? To me, even before the stand alone, SC was just a place you could play a great many maps of varying quality, almost none linking them back to SC in and of it self, unless an official map. But I never thought of SC as a game in and of it self, just a game engine of sorts.

And I am sure SC can get away with what it does, or more to the point, get away with what it's mappers from the community do, such as using video segments of famous people, being disrespectful (you would have to play a few of their special maps to understand what I mean...) and straight up pornography in some, because they are not so much making those types of maps themselves and truth be told, not even really hosting them, but being used as a platform to showcase them. And to be fair, when I say a few, I mean just a few. Out of about a thousand maps just about 10 are the ones I am specifically referring to and all made by the same person/group. Now how much stolen content SC it self uses, if any, I have no idea.

I wonder if MSC would go to Sven Co-op as a game in and of it self or just maps linked together and then played on official FN servers for the real experience, if they would accept us. And that is not to say not to work towards getting greenlighted on your own, but in the mean time go to SC and gain more popularity and then more mappers, modelers, animators etc. Replace what needs to go forward on your own and when the time is right, get the green light and go!

Thothie · Nov 11, 2016

We have a hash system where we can allow maps that are not part of the installer or on the official servers, and verify their integrity through FN, and thus still allow them. (As indicated by "external maps" on the, somewhat dated, World Map.)

Currently, the only map we do this for is Orc_Arena. We used to do it for the Guildmaster map as well, as it was a special use utility map, but we changed the system for that. (Albeit, a broken one at the moment, but next patch...) But, if someone wanted to add something with a bunch of copyrighted material they wanted to host themselves, we couldn't be faulted for it anymore than Svencoop is, and thus wouldn't have yet more copyrighted material to replace. (Granted, even internally, Svencoop is already using quite a bit of copyrighted material.) So long as it wasn't a cheat map, we could still allow it on FN.

MS:C community · Nov 11, 2016

Please stop reviving dead threads.

Everquest · Nov 11, 2016

Thothie said:
We have a hash system where we can allow maps that are not part of the installer or on the official servers, and verify their integrity through FN, and thus still allow them. (As indicated by "external maps" on the, somewhat dated, World Map.)

Currently, the only map we do this for is Orc_Arena. We used to do it for the Guildmaster map as well, as it was a special use utility map, but we changed the system for that. (Albeit, a broken one at the moment, but next patch...) But, if someone wanted to add something with a bunch of copyrighted material they wanted to host themselves, we couldn't be faulted for it anymore than Svencoop is, and thus wouldn't have yet more copyrighted material to replace. (Granted, even internally, Svencoop is already using quite a bit of copyrighted material.) So long as it wasn't a cheat map, we could still allow it on FN.

But may I ask... Why did you guys use so much copy material, without permission, to begin with? I mean even before there was a green light to be had... Also when did this all occur? Back when I was playing there was only about 12 maps. To be honest I had seen less then half, but what I did see looked promising, fun and "unique". I mean I could not out right recall any used material from another mod (minus maybe some map textures that were off the HL game engine you were building on anyway.) and I had played just about all there was to play, both single player and online, dead or active at the time and even other retail games of the time or at least knew of them.

Unless these models were borrowed and repurposed or remasked or some code "copy and pasted" I saw nothing that would of screamed "COPY RIGHTED".

Monika's_BFFEx0256 · Nov 11, 2016

MS:C community said:
Please stop reviving dead threads.

Thothie · Nov 11, 2016

Everquest said:
But may I ask... Why did you guys use so much copy material, without permission, to begin with? I mean even before there was a green light to be had... Also when did this all occur?

Since MSC's inception (and even all the way back to MS 1.1), there's been a lot of copyrighted material, some of which is still there (such as the Gunman Chronicles scorpions, for which we have a replacement model, but I dunno when we'll get to, plus various textures, sounds, and props, etc).

The primary reason is just a lack of manpower, and being a non-profit venture, it was never a problem, legally speaking, save maybe with the music (all of which, I believe, we've fixed). The maps are nearly all OC, but the demands they place on the modeling department (which has always been haphazard, and at the moment, is effectively non-existent) have always been beyond their ability to keep up with.

Among the more recent violations, usually, the copyrighted material serves as a place holder until some suitable OC can come along. Though, once in a great while, we end up having copyrighted material donated to us unknowingly. About half our materials are from other dead mods, with permission, but occasionally it turns out that those are stolen from elsewhere in turn or miscredited, as this isn't exactly an uncommon practice. Then there's the occasional odd situation, such as the one that arose with the Blood Drinker, where someone gave us a drawing from which to create a model, that turned out was actually a design lifted from another game. (Letting that one slide though, as at least the model itself is completely original.)

And we recently got tricked into buying a model or two from Turbosquid, which it turned out they didn't actually have the rights for (and they were selling them at a markup to boot, the bastards).

...as for the Lor Malgoriand-tier thread necromancy, meh, gives something for the forums to do. Just dreading the day when he revives an old sh*tstorm.

Monika's_BFFEx0256 · Nov 11, 2016

Thothie said:
...as for the Lor Malgoriand-tier thread necromancy, meh, gives something for the forums to do. Just dreading the day when he revives an old sh*tstorm.

+1 lol

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